Vollmer M35 adopted

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Deleted member 1487

One thing, in the East vs. the Soviets, which was an area where artillery inflicted fewer casualties relative to bullets than on other fronts, especially early on when Soviets had some tendency to engage in human wave attacks, having a semi-auto rifle would be a BIG help, especially with an intermediate cartridge for quick follow up shots
 
Perhaps a select-fire rifle might have turned the tide in the first month of Barbarossa, by allowing some of the more tougher pockets to be crushed faster and thus freeing up more units to push on. Not sure if the logistics is up to it, but it's something to consider.
 

Deleted member 1487

Perhaps a select-fire rifle might have turned the tide in the first month of Barbarossa, by allowing some of the more tougher pockets to be crushed faster and thus freeing up more units to push on. Not sure if the logistics is up to it, but it's something to consider.
Perhaps, apparently the Gewehr 41 failed pretty badly in Barbarossa and they had to rip off the Soviet SVT-40 to make the G-43.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gewehr_41
It certainly would have helped to have a functional semi-auto rifle in Russia. Which makes me wonder why the G-41 with a very similar operating system to the Vollmer M35 (but didn't work?) was made, but the Vollmer was not.
 

Deleted member 1487

Do we agree that this would butterfly away the GeW-41/43? Or would there be a demand for full caliber scoped semi-auto rifles?
There is potential for another option there, the 7 x 46mm round mentioned in the "German automatic rifles" book by OGF Smith earlier talked about it as a round developed in the 1930s, which ironically is a round redeveloped as a universal cartridge now for the US army based on the Czech 7.62mm x 45mm necked down to 7mm:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/04/07/7x46mm-uiac-universal-intermediate-assault-cartridge/
If adopted it might be a real winner and completely eliminate the need for the Gew 41/43, as the 7mm round would be plenty to handle the semi-auto sniping role (as well as a squad automatic weapon....). Personally I wonder what a MG42 chambered in 7mm x 46mm would perform like.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Do we agree that this would butterfly away the GeW-41/43? Or would there be a demand for full caliber scoped semi-auto rifles?
There is potential for another option there, the 7 x 46mm round mentioned in the "German automatic rifles" book by OGF Smith earlier talked ...
Is this the book/citaion you talk about ?
(found it searching for a pic and dimensions of the GECO cartridge, unfortunatly found only the pic)

intermediate GECO patronen.jpg



... about it as a round developed in the 1930s, which ironically is a round redeveloped as a universal cartridge now for the US army based on the Czech 7.62mm x 45mm necked down to 7mm:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/04/07/7x46mm-uiac-universal-intermediate-assault-cartridge/
If adopted it might be a real winner and completely eliminate the need for the Gew 41/43, as the 7mm round would be plenty to handle the semi-auto sniping role (as well as a squad automatic weapon....). Personally I wonder what a MG42 chambered in 7mm x 46mm would perform like.
It's stated ther, that it was a try of Rheinmetall-Borsig to developü a "special" aircraft MG ammo. Therefore I wonder, if it wouldn't have had too much of a "punch" - on a soldiers shoulder.
What would somehow compromise the disscussed "assault rifle" configuration (semi- AND automatic fire for the Landser).

However, if the semiautomatic rifle + (somewhat slightly heavier) automic squad weapon would have been adopted, it could have been a good general purpouse "Einheits" calibre ... if it was rendered even powerfull enough for an aircraft MG, then perhaps even for a multipurpose-MG (also in use as heavy MG, would be perhaps a question of barrel change mechanism in this role).
 

Deleted member 1487

Is this the book/citaion you talk about ?
(found it searching for a pic and dimensions of the GECO cartridge, unfortunatly found only the pic)
Yes, thanks! How did you find that, I've been looking for a while for some sort of image? Not quite what I thought, but seems to be very similar to the proposed modern 7mm x 46mm universal cartridge.

Also very similar to the British 7mm attempts post-war:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.270_British
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.280_British
British .270 and .280:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/270.jpg

7mm x46mm.jpg


It's stated ther, that it was a try of Rheinmetall-Borsig to developü a "special" aircraft MG ammo. Therefore I wonder, if it wouldn't have had too much of a "punch" - on a soldiers shoulder.
What would somehow compromise the disscussed "assault rifle" configuration (semi- AND automatic fire for the Landser).

However, if the semiautomatic rifle + (somewhat slightly heavier) automic squad weapon would have been adopted, it could have been a good general purpouse "Einheits" calibre ... if it was rendered even powerfull enough for an aircraft MG, then perhaps even for a multipurpose-MG (also in use as heavy MG, would be perhaps a question of barrel change mechanism in this role).
I doubt it would have any more punch than the 7.92mm x 57mm and probably much less. I think the entire point of it was have a round with less propellant and recoil, while still retaining the same range and somewhat similar energy at distance for less material. If chosen for an infantry round, I could see it then chambering for MGs, bolt action weapons, and semi-autos, replacing the 7.92mm caliber entirely....but that is probably unlikely right before and during WW2, not least due to production concerns and military conservatism.

The 7mm round is not big enough for use against aircraft, but it great for use on people and a lot of post-WW2 (and even pre-WW1) studies demonstrated. It could also mean much lighter weapons compared to existing MGs, plus less barrel wear due to the lower amount of propellant being used and less force on the parts of the weapon.
 
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FG42 ."...... apparently a company is making near exact replicas of the rifle in original German 7.92. Potentially a great weapon, but far too overpowered with that long charge.[/QUOTE]"

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I have fired an FG42 replica and thoroughly enjoyed it. That replica was of an early pattern FG42 (weird angle on pistol grip) made in Germany. It is lighter, shorter and has less felt recoil than an FN FAL.

A Texas-based company called SMG is manufacturing replica FG42 late pattern (wooden butt-stock) in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO.
 

Deleted member 1487

I have fired an FG42 replica and thoroughly enjoyed it. That replica was of an early pattern FG42 (weird angle on pistol grip) made in Germany. It is lighter, shorter and has less felt recoil than an FN FAL.

A Texas-based company called SMG is manufacturing replica FG42 late pattern (wooden butt-stock) in .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO.
Sup.
 
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