I think Sigismund the Old could marry Sidonie of Bavaria and Poland could get at least Upper Silesia as a compromise to Prevent Jagiellonians from even trying to claim the Bohemian and Hungarian Thrones, why? Briefly before that time three of Upper Silesian Duchies got sold to Poland.
 
Last edited:
Still, I don't think the Habsburgs would allow it to happen without a fight. They have rights to the thrones afterall. Maybe if Sigismund would be willing to sign a treaty regarding his heirless death resulting in a Habsburg inheritance of his thrones. As an assurance, his niece, the daughter of Vladislaus II could be bethrothed to one of Maximilians grandsons, Ferdinand to be exact (just like OTL).

Now, if the sceniario goes like this, and Sigismund inherits Poland-Lithuania in 1506, like IOTL, then that could lead to some very interesting sceniarios.

I think Sigismund the Old could marry Sidonie of Bavaria and Poland could get at least Upper Silesia as a compromise to Prevent Poland from even trying to claim the Bohemian and Hungarian Thrones, why? Briefly before that time three of Upper Silesian Duchies got sold to Poland.
He can marry Sidonie if he want a bride now or he can wait some years for Eleanor (as marrying a close relative to Sigismund will be top priority for Maximilian now). Bona Sforza will not be an option for Sigismund here and Anna right now can be engaged to Charles or simply to a grandson of Maximilian (she can not be engaged to Ferdinand as Maximilian has no right to arrange a match for him because the boy is not in his custody)
 
I think Sigismund the Old could marry Sidonie of Bavaria and Poland could get at least Upper Silesia as a compromise to Prevent Poland from even trying to claim the Bohemian and Hungarian Thrones, why? Briefly before that time three of Upper Silesian Duchies got sold to Poland.
That would not make any sense with Sigismund rulling both Bohemia and Poland. It would cause massive revolt in Bohemia, there is zero reason for Sigismund to do something like this.
 
That would not make any sense with Sigismund rulling both Bohemia and Poland. It would cause massive revolt in Bohemia, there is zero reason for Sigismund to do something like this.
If Max wants to gain the throne of Bohemia he will need to make bribes or compromises with the Jagiellonians.

I am not talking about a scenario where Sigismund becomes the King of Bohemia but rather the Habsburgs getting the throne of Bohemia and Hungary.
 
If Max wants to gain the throne of Bohemia he will need to make bribes or compromises with the Jagiellonians.

I am not talking about a scenario where Sigismund becomes the King of Bohemia but rather the Habsburgs getting the throne of Bohemia and Hungary.
In 1504 Sigismund has no throne, he can't be bribed to give up claims to the crowns of his brother, Habsburgs could not promise him anything that would compensate it.
 

krieger

Banned
Barbara/Borbála is around 9 at the time, while Sigismund is almost 40. Even with Medieval measures, that's a bit far-fetched imo.

He still married her IOTL. The actual marriage can be replaced by a promise of marriage.

Well, that's just you and your pessimism :D . Anyway, we're not quite there yet to discuss that in the context of the sceniario.

Well, I get it.

Having such a large continous empire would piss off the Ottomans nevertheless, but I get what you're saying.

Of course Ottomans wouldn't be happy from this empire forming, but Sigismund wouldn't strive towards war with them intentionally (as the cabal, who controlled Louis did).
He wasn't that young by this point though. And he certainly amassed a lot of experience in fighting atleast, but as you mentioned, he certainly wasn't loved by all the magnates. Still the South and a good chunk of the common nobility would side with him

Yes, but the South is also the most threatened by Ottomans part of a country, so if they saw that they can't establish Corvinus peacefully they would become far, far more cautious in their actions.
The year is 1505, and not just by Habsburgs, but all foreigners were banned from taking the throne. In the end though, it wasn't a proper diet and had no legal binding.
Depends of who do you consider foreigner, brother of the king could be considered Hungarian (and he spent some amount of time on Hungarian court), but in the end it's not the treaties who will determine the succesion. It is strength and support. And Habsburgs asked Sigismund to renounce his claims in Vienna IOTL, so they weren't so sure about their rights coming from treaty.

That is just natural. Maybe Sigismund would take the neutral approach and rule from Prague, but I'm not sure.
I think that he would be a the first stages of his reign rule from Buda, the trouble could be noticed in the later stages of rule.
 
IOTL Sigismund married Barbara Zapolya because he wanted to counterbalance Habsburg influence on the court of Vladislaus (thus he needed to strenghten position of Janos Zapolya, who was leader of anti-Habsburg 'national' party.) If Sigismund himself is King of Hungary there is no need for such action. Also, Janos Zapolya has not married early IOTL, because he wanted to marry Vladislaus' daughter (but was refused). Now, Anna is not daughter but niece of King of Hungary, thus it would more sense for Janos to marry someone more closely related to Sigismund (perhaps his youngest sister, if Sigismund still sees need for such match, Janos could also marry Margaret Hohenzollern, Sigismund's other niece). Marrying his own subject would not be in Sigismund's style (knowing how he reacted to second marriage of his son IOTL)
 
Alexander is only 43 years old at the time, Sigismund could not predict, that he'd die just two years later.
What I was trying to say is if he loses his claim in Bohemia and has backing in Silesia he could retain parts of Silesia as compensation which would unite with Poland when he probably becomes King.
 
Assuming Sigismund creates this proposed empire encompassing Hungary, Bohemia, Poland and Lithuania, I wonder how different the wars against Muscovy would be? Also, how much money could Sigismund spare for the modernisation of the Hungarian forts? How early could the upgrade of Nándorfehérvár/Belgrade could be done?
 

krieger

Banned
Assuming Sigismund creates this proposed empire encompassing Hungary, Bohemia, Poland and Lithuania, I wonder how different the wars against Muscovy would be? Also, how much money could Sigismund spare for the modernisation of the Hungarian forts? How early could the upgrade of Nándorfehérvár/Belgrade could be done?
I think that (having Hungary and Bohemia to worry about) Sigismund wouldn't agree to attack Moscow in 1507. If he has a deal with Maximilian prior to his ascension in Poland than there is no alliance between Maximilian and Vassili III in 1512. He could only ally with Albert Hohenzollern. Sigismund (as far as I know) was a fairly good administator of his Glogau duchy, so I think he'd launch the modernization of the forts after deal with Maximilan and his unquestioned ascension (it would be circa 1505).
 
Sigismund lost 4 brothers in 5 years and after death of Alexander he is last living male Jagiellon, that means he would be under strong pressure to marry quickly.
@krieger what would you say about Bavarian princess for him?
 

krieger

Banned
Sigismund lost 4 brothers in 5 years and after death of Alexander he is last living male Jagiellon, that means he would be under strong pressure to marry quickly.
@krieger what would you say about Bavarian princess for him?

Niece of Max (the one who Casimir Hohenzollern married IOTL)? It could be part be a deal with Max after getting Hungarian throne.
 
Niece of Max (the one who Casimir Hohenzollern married IOTL)? It could be part be a deal with Max after getting Hungarian throne.
Casimir married Susanna, the youngest niece of Maximilian who in 1504 was just 2 years old so no. Sigismund here will likely marry the eldest, Sidonie (who was born in 1488 and IOTL died in 1505 unmarried). She was already engaged to a cousin but can be easily replaced by her next sister Sybille (born in 1489, who in OTL married Sidonie’s fiancé after her death)
 
If Sigismund had sons they would be co-rulers of his vast empire once they razem adulthood and four thrones would be divided again after his death (just not into 4 parts, most likely division would be Bohemia-Hungary for older and Poland-Lithuania for younger son.
 
Top