Vladimir decides his god

The Year of Grace 988 Anno Dominie, (by the calendar of the Christians)

Tsar Vladimir I had decided to get rid of paganism from Russia. To that end, he had sent groups of scholars in various directions, to question holy men about the merits of the different religions. His scholars had gone to Germany, to meet with Catholic priests; they had met with Jewish rabbis; and they had met with Moslems; they travelled to Constantinople, crossroads of the east, to talk with the priests of the Greek Orthodox Church; and because they had met a group of travelling traders in the great marketplace of Contantinople, they had even gone so far as to visit India and China to enquire about Hinduism, Bhuddism, Taoism and Confucianism. Each group of travelling scholars had returned and given their reports and recommendations. Now Tsar Vladimir I, lord of a pagan land, sat thinking.

At long last, he made his decision. He called for a scribe to write down a proclamation, to be declared across the countryside, in every town and village where his writ ran.

That was how the people of Russia gradually found out, over the next few weeks and months, that their Tsar had decided to adopt the faith of Islam...
 

Stalker

Banned
Vladimir (Volodimer) Svyatoslavich was not a tsar. He was a knyaz (Grand Duke - derived from koenig) of Kiev. The title of tsar/czar (derived from caesar) was firstly claimed by Ivan III of Moscow but the first real tsar was Ivan IV The Terrible.
On subject... Well, you might know why Vladimir rejected the idea of Islam in the OTL legend?;)
 
Vladimir's mother was a Byzantine princess, who would have had priests among her entourage. It was almost inevitable that Vladimir would have chosen Christianity. Islamic influence in the region during the 10th Century was rather negligable. Most Turkics were still practicing Shamanists.
 
Vladimir's mother was a Byzantine princess, who would have had priests among her entourage. It was almost inevitable that Vladimir would have chosen Christianity. Islamic influence in the region during the 10th Century was rather negligable. Most Turkics were still practicing Shamanists.

Right, didn't Islam come only way later into the region with the splinter states of the Mongol Empire?
 

Vince

Monthly Donor
Is Basil II screwed if this happens? This means he doesn't receive 6,000 troops to help him put down the rebellions by Bardas Sclerus and Bardas Phocas.
 
Right, didn't Islam come only way later into the region with the splinter states of the Mongol Empire?

It was after the Mongol Golden Horde was founded by the brothers Batu and Orda, the grandsons of Ghengis Khan through his eldest son, Jochi. Batu led the Blue Horde in the west, and Orda commanded the White Horde in the east. It was collectively referred to as the "Golden Horde".

The lands between southern Russia, the Ukraine, and Kazakhstan which was inhabited by the Turkic-speaking Volga Bulgars and the Kipchaks. When the Mongols conquered the general area during the 1230's, other Turks and Tatars followed them from Central Asia.

While the Mongol overlords practiced a variety of religions, the Persianized Muslim civil servants and the Islamicized Turkic rank-and-file soldiers would determine the future ethnic and cultural character of the Golden Horde.

By the early 1300's, the Golden Horde was already beginning to lose its Mongolian character, and was sometimes referred to as the Kipchak Khanate. It was during the reign of Uzbeg Khan between 1313-41, that the Horde would officially convert to Islam. The princes of the Horde whom continued to practice Buddhism or Tengriism were eliminated.

It is the late 1200's-early 1300's period that would be the earliest date for beginning an ATL involving the Islamization of Russia.

Vladimir Svyatoslavich had maternal Byzantine ancestry, not to mention the Greek Christian priests that would have been present in the royal household when he was growing up. So he wouldn't have been all that familiar with Islam in the first place.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Actually, it is concievable for Vladimir to choose Islam. The POD would be rather easy to manage, too.

Instead of having Vladimir send his emissaries to Baghdad instead of the Bulgars, who the emissaries were disgusted by (their lifestyle/standard of living, not so much the faith).

While a trip to the glory of Baghdad and a probable audience with the Caliph might not be able to trump the imperial might of Constantinople, it would surely allow for Islam to recieve much more consideration from Vladimir than IOTL.
 
that might be more interesting-- imagine Buddhist Russia.

It would indeed have been interesting--any of those Asiatic religions being adopted would have immediately and dramatically changed Russia's various relationships with the countries of the Far East.
 
Vladimir (Volodimer) Svyatoslavich was not a tsar. He was a knyaz (Grand Duke - derived from koenig) of Kiev. The title of tsar/czar (derived from caesar) was firstly claimed by Ivan III of Moscow but the first real tsar was Ivan IV The Terrible.
On subject... Well, you might know why Vladimir rejected the idea of Islam in the OTL legend?;)

Circumcision, plus abstinence from pork and wine, disturbed Vladimir, I read;:eek: plus the life-style of the Bulgars, who didn't impress the emissaries at all...:)
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Turtledove actually wrote a very good short story ("Islands in the Sea," I believe) that's based on the story of how Vladimir chose his faith.

In the end, the Bulgar Khan chooses Islam over Christianity due to the power of the Caliphate and, on a theological level, the fact that he gets to keep his many wives (four as officials, the rest as concubines), and the promise of a far more appealing afterlife (spending eternity in a garden of paradise rather than "feeling closer to God" or something). He too, though, is put off by the prohibition on pork and alcohol. Circumcision is not mentioned; I have a feeling the Muslims weren't going to spring that bit on him till after he converted :rolleyes:

Anyways, I highly recommend the story, and it could help your POD.
 
It would indeed have been interesting--any of those Asiatic religions being adopted would have immediately and dramatically changed Russia's various relationships with the countries of the Far East.

Yeah, imagine Russia adopting Buddhism and Confucianism, while still remaining conversant with the west. It could eventually lead to Russians ruling China, or Russia-China being held in some sort of a perpetual alliance/personal union kinda deal. Tsar of all Russias, Son of Heaven, and Celestial Emperor... awesome, but very much ASB.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Yeah, imagine Russia adopting Buddhism and Confucianism, while still remaining conversant with the west. It could eventually lead to Russians ruling China, or Russia-China being held in some sort of a perpetual alliance/personal union kinda deal. Tsar of all Russias, Son of Heaven, and Celestial Emperor... awesome, but very much ASB.

Tsar would not been used, we would likely see the title Khan or Khagan of the Rus instead, Tsar (Caesar) being adopted through Byzans, of course a union with China are closed to ASB. Through a Buddhist Russia would be very interesting.
 
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It occurred to me also, when I was writing the OP, that Vladimir might had adopted Confucianism instead of Christianity because of the emphasis on filial piety and social obedience in that belief system--it would arguably suit Russian society much better.
 
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