Vladimír I. decides to convert the Kievan Rus to... Islam...

[Petike]

Yeah, I know, a bit cheesy and quite improbable :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_I_of_Kiev#Baptism_of_Rus

But if he had really done so, what would be the consequences ?
I mean : Both immediate, short-time ones, and later, more far-future ones.

 

[hak19]

As Interesting as a Muslim Russia would be, I don't believe there was much of a Muslim presence in Russia during that time to make it work.

 

[Faeelin]

As Interesting as a Muslim Russia would be, I don't believe there was much of a Muslim presence in Russia during that time to make it work.

Hrmm. Plenty of trade with Muslim regions, no? And we know of at least one Muslim traveller who visitted the Rus.

 

[SilverPhantom2]

Well for one thing, Russian culture would be vastly different. Perhaps a different sect of Islam that allows Russian culture as well as the heavenly power to conquer the land for Rus'. All in all, it'd make an interesting TL.

Things I could see:

-Russian alliance with the Turks
-Access and possible control of the Mediterranean
-Russo-Persian War in which the Russian-Turk alliance conquers Persia and gains access to the Indian Ocean
-Russian conquest of India

By the early 1900s, you could have a Cold War standoff between the Islamic-Totalitarian East and the Christian-Democratic West. Now that would be interesting.

 

[Communist Wizard]

Yeah, yeah, I'm expecting a flood of people saying how it's cliche, but then again, it faces the same problem as many others: Where's the TL? So, please do not bring that up.
Relations with the Byzantines will be very chilly, however, and the Rus trade will suffer because of it. I can see crusades later as well. However, the Muslims may back them up.

 

[hak19]

Yeah, yeah, I'm expecting a flood of people saying how it's cliche, but then again, it faces the same problem as many others: Where's the TL? So, please do not bring that up.
Relations with the Byzantines will be very chilly, however, and the Rus trade will suffer because of it. I can see crusades later as well. However, the Muslims may back them up.

A crusade into the vastness of Russia? A disaster in the making. I wonder if Russia would spread East as far as it did in TTL and what impact it would have on Islam in China.

 

[Skokie]

They probably would have expanded west, conquering Northern Europe while the Turks (their likely allies) took on Byzantium.

 

[Faeelin]

A crusade into the vastness of Russia? A disaster in the making. I wonder if Russia would spread East as far as it did in TTL and what impact it would have on Islam in China.

I wonder what Nevsky's name would be, in this TL?

 

[Ridwan Asher]

By the early 1900s, you could have a Cold War standoff between the Islamic-Totalitarian East and the Christian-Democratic West. Now that would be interesting.

IF the west would still be Christian democratic ITTL of Muslim Russia. Christian? OK! Democratic ? Not necessarily. Butterflies, anyone ?

Indeed a totalitarian Muslim Russian state is an easier choice to make, though.

 

[hak19]

IF the west would still be Christian democratic ITTL of Muslim Russia. Christian? OK! Democratic ? Not necessarily. Butterflies, anyone ?

Indeed a totalitarian Muslim Russian state is an easier choice to make, though.

Combine Islam's Expansionism with Russia's natural xenophobia of neighbors would make a dangerous combination.

Would Russia be able to avoid falling behind Europe which was the fate of much of the Muslim world is the question.

I wonder would it be Shi'ite, Sunni or a completely new third denomination?

 

[Ridwan Asher]

1) Combine Islam's Expansionism with Russia's natural xenophobia of neighbors would make a dangerous combination.

2) Would Russia be able to avoid falling behind Europe which was the fate of much of the Muslim world is the question.

3) I wonder would it be Shi'ite, Sunni or a completely new third denomination?

1) Indeed.

2) Well, considering the timeframe of the PoD, some butterflies must be considered. Indeed, slower advancement of the Islamic World was there, because it generally got more relaxed nerve to progress and invent for their more advantageous position in gaining wealth compared to Europe, not to mention the intellectual-literatural culture (I'm talking about the Warraqs) as the additional factor.
But didn't Europe only began to rapidized in her development during the middle of the 2nd millennium anyway ?

3) Most likely (almost definitely, in fact) Sunni. But I wonder how cool would an Ibadi Russia be....

 

[abas]

Combine Islam's Expansionism with Russia's natural xenophobia of neighbors would make a dangerous combination.

That "natural" xenophobia developed quite late and in the Christian Russia.

Would Russia be able to avoid falling behind Europe which was the fate of much of the Muslim world is the question.

I would say they may be not very different from OTL.

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

You mean as opposed to the total lack of expansionism of Christian Russia?

It would make no difference in this regard, although lack of drinking would make the Russians way more formidable militarily until the modern era.

Combine Islam's Expansionism with Russia's natural xenophobia of neighbors would make a dangerous combination.

Would Russia be able to avoid falling behind Europe which was the fate of much of the Muslim world is the question.

I wonder would it be Shi'ite, Sunni or a completely new third denomination?

 

[Ran Exilis]

They probably would have expanded west, conquering Northern Europe while the Turks (their likely allies) took on Byzantium.

I don't think that there would be much interaction between the Russians and the Seljuks or any ATL Muslim Turkic dynasty in the Middle East, as the Caucasus and the pagan Turkic nomads that dominated the steppes of what's now southern Russia and Ukraine would be standing between Russia and the Muslim states in the Middle East.

It would make no difference in this regard, although lack of drinking would make the Russians way more formidable militarily until the modern era.

Seeing as how suprisingly popular wine etc. was among the Medieval Turks, Persians and Andalusians, I'd be truly suprised if converting to Islam would actually put an end to the average Russian's affinity for alcohol...

That said, if they can just prevent their soldiers from drinking...

..
On a related note; there's a good chance that such an Islamic Russian state would create armies of (propably mostly Turkic) mamluks, just like the Iranian and Arab Muslim states.

This could cause some interesting developments, as in the Russian sultans being overthrown by their Turkic mamluks...

 

[Dan1988]

That said, if they can just prevent their soldiers from drinking...

Ah, naz drovye!

 

[Ridwan Asher]

That "natural" xenophobia developed quite late and in the Christian Russia. I would say they may be not very different from OTL.

This is news to me.

 

[abas]

This is news to me.

That is what I think can be called "syndrome of besieged fortress", since Russians often felt as so they besieged by neighbours and IMO this can be traced from 15th century.

 

[Petike]

Ah, naz drovye!

Aj Tebe na zdravie !

 

[Valdemar II]

A interesting butterfly of this is that we could see Novgorod either stay Pagan or converting to Catholism. If it stay Pagan it will most likely be a victim of German or Scandinavian Crusaders and end up as either Prussia (assimilated by the conquers) or Estland, Latvia and Finland (natives keep their languages but a small western or westernize elite rule over them). If it convert to Catholism it will likely become a integrated part of Norden, maybe staying Slavic maybe becoming Scandinavian or Low German (thanks to the Hanse).
The other interesting Butterfly is Lithuania in OTL before the conversion to Catholism, it were 25% Pagan (includes the Elite) and 75% Othodocs, here the Othodocs is replaced by Muslims, if Lithuania also convert ITTL, they need to find a way to deal with the Muslims, who is just to many to decimate or drive out, likely they will adopt something like Dhimmitude* as way to deal with them, which together with western emigration could mean that they will slowly become in minority, beside that it could mean that either the Polish or Lithuanian language will take over these East Slavic areas.

*at least until they're a small enough minority, so that harsher methods can be taken in use.

 

[hak19]

You mean as opposed to the total lack of expansionism of Christian Russia?

It would make no difference in this regard, although lack of drinking would make the Russians way more formidable militarily until the modern era.

I'am talking about a rapid expansion, Islam spread over much of the known world very quickly. I can't recall a Christian state spreading as fast as the Caliphates did. I'am imagining a rapid expansion of a Muslim Russia which i believe would happen faster then in a Christian Russia.