Vive la France....a completely French Canada....

This may have been talked about many times but, I was at work the other day and a Scottish friend of mine said that a Canada completely ruled by the French would have been a 'Hell to live in'. A bit of a harsh statement, granted but he felt Canada being part of the British Empire was the best thing that could ever have happened to it. I probed a little further to see his reasoning behind this statement and it wasn't founded on facts or a good argument, just a little anti-catholic nonsense, (Canada run by Papists would never do etc etc) that he still holds onto.

But it got me thinking. What would a French Empire in Canada have looked like. New France stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific. How would French Canada have faired during the 19th Century. What would French/US relations be like? What about French immigration into Canada? If there was a British minority in Canada, what would there relations with the French Canadians be like?

Whatever it was like, I'm sure it wouldn't be a 'Hell to live in'......
 
French Canada = NO USA, PERIOD.

Indeed the Americans would rely on Britain protecting them from the French, by the time it comes about to really being able to oppose Britain they will be more intergrated into the Empire; like the Canadians and Australians IOTL. So a much wealthier Britain will be the result.
 
Maybe the New French would also revolt against their colonial rulers. Then the New French and Americans ally to keep the French and Brits from taking their freedom...
 
Maybe the New French would also revolt against their colonial rulers. Then the New French and Americans ally to keep the French and Brits from taking their freedom...

Unlikely. Even in the young republic, anti-french and anti-catholic sentiments were quite prevelant.

On another note, stringent French immigration laws mean this canada has a much smaller population, and I can't see the French getting hold of Rupert's land that easily.
 
Unlikely. Even in the young republic, anti-french and anti-catholic sentiments were quite prevelant.

On another note, stringent French immigration laws mean this canada has a much smaller population, and I can't see the French getting hold of Rupert's land that easily.

If the immigration law was changed, possibly after TTL version of the French Revolution, that could change.
Since the British colonies were anti-catholic, Italians, Irish, Spanish, and other Catholics may go to New France instead if given the chance. This would make taking Ruperts Land easier.
Also the French were more willing to work with Natives, so if they were careful and avoided angering the big nations like they did with the Iroquois, They could get good allies in the plains. The Sioux might be willing to become a protectorate of New France to keep the English/Americans out.
With the British in control of the American colonies, the Americans will expand more slowly. Give the Natives a better chance to recover from diseases, get weapons, and unite. With French support this becomes easier and more likely.
The prairies have the potential to be a big battleground between French and English settlers, with Nativess supporting each side. The English would have an advantage in settlers, but the French would probably have more and better Native allies.
 
Hmmm...
Does anyone have a POD for this scenario?
As a quarter Quebecoís,I'd love to see such a timeline unfold.
 
French Canada = NO USA, PERIOD.

You know, this is the common assumption, but I wonder how true it is.

Say it's 1763. Britain has taken Canada; the colonies are ecstatic, as in OTL. And then... it's traded away for a few sugar islands.

See the problem?
 
Hmmm...
Does anyone have a POD for this scenario?
As a quarter Quebecoís,I'd love to see such a timeline unfold.

England decides to keep the sugar islands, and realizes that with Quebec in French hands the colonies will look to it for military support. The Colonists will be angry, but if they fight they'll have to worry about the papist French. So the Colonists shut up, and Britain makes money. Win-win.
New France, Acadia, and the Upper Country (from Fort Frontenac Northward) remains with France, the rest is ceded to Britain in 1763.

This makes the French very upset, since they've just lost a vital sugar island for hundreds of miles of ice and snow. The populace gets angry especially as the sugar money drops off. Trying to make the best of a bad situation the Government encourages more settlers to go to New France. Possibly prisoners are sent over as well to the more Northern areas.
By the 1780's France is practically bankrupt, and people are starving.
Due to butterflies the exact situation is different, so a few different faces, and different times, but Louis and his government act like OTL and in the 1780's France falls to revolution.
People wanting to avoid the revolution flee the country, a few thousand go to New France. No one really important goes there, but it helps increase the population.
Assuming the Wars of Revolution occur which seems likely, the French would probably rally and their citizen army defeats the European coalition as per OTL. If Napoleon or a Napoleon-like General takes charge Europe is going to be in upheaval.
New France to avoid war with Britain declares its support for the monarchy. It becomes a safe haven for French people who don't support the Revolution, and for Catholics trying to avoid the war.
After the war(s) New France has a more varied population, and the restrictive immigration policy is ended, due to a weak French government being unable to enforce the policy.
The New France government makes deals with the Natives in the Western territories, and use them to help rebuild a claim for some of their lost lands. With the Natives they're able to politely but strongly regain their claims to old territory.

After that too many butterflies arise for me to guess what might happen. Although sometime between 1780 and the very early 1800's the British colonies are going to be pushing hard for self rule. Especially if France ends up very weak during or after the revolution.
 
New France going through the Revolution would be... interesting. Quebec IOTL was basically ancien regime-light; I'm not sure how well it would take to the Revolution but I don't think it would be a lot. Possibly they get a government-in-exile, although in practical terms they'd need the at least tacit support of the British to do that and by the time the British really turn on the French Republic they've probably already sent, eg, a new governor with some copies of Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen over. So I'm not sure how it would go, but it would sure as hell be interesting.
 

Skokie

Banned
How the hell are you going to get a transcontinental French Canada with those greedy Yanks spreading out every which way?
 
New France going through the Revolution would be... interesting. Quebec IOTL was basically ancien regime-light; I'm not sure how well it would take to the Revolution but I don't think it would be a lot. Possibly they get a government-in-exile, although in practical terms they'd need the at least tacit support of the British to do that and by the time the British really turn on the French Republic they've probably already sent, eg, a new governor with some copies of Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen over. So I'm not sure how it would go, but it would sure as hell be interesting.
As you said they were monarchists. So they might be able to get away with it if they handed the British the new governors head on a platter, and swore loyalty to the French King. Might be a bit of a minor revolution in New France, but it would likely be small.

How the hell are you going to get a transcontinental French Canada with those greedy Yanks spreading out every which way?
Slow the greedy bastards down using the nervous British leaders and Natives armed with plentiful weapons and good training.
 
With an established New France striding across North America, the fledging USA maybe threatened. Would France have remained neutral during the American Civil War? Could we have had French regiments fighting the Union alongside the Confederacy?

I feel there may have been more Catholic immigration into a Canada under French influence. I'm sure Catholic Germans, Poles, Irish and even Spanish may have swelled the population, and their colonial forces. Could these forces have played a part in the ACW. Could the famous Irish 'Wild Geese' have been seen on the field of Gettysburg?
 
New France going through the Revolution would be... interesting. Quebec IOTL was basically ancien regime-light; I'm not sure how well it would take to the Revolution but I don't think it would be a lot. Possibly they get a government-in-exile, although in practical terms they'd need the at least tacit support of the British to do that and by the time the British really turn on the French Republic they've probably already sent, eg, a new governor with some copies of Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen over. So I'm not sure how it would go, but it would sure as hell be interesting.

In OTL a guy by the name of Henri-Antoine Mezieres tried to get the Canadians to revolt with covert support from Citizen Genet. Mezieres reported the Canadians seemed pretty interested in revolting at least from British rule and setting up a republic and were apparently following the Revolution closely.

There's no British here in TTL, but the interest in the Revolution may remain yet...
 
Slow the greedy bastards down using the nervous British leaders and Natives armed with plentiful weapons and good training.

Regarding this and what Skokie said, it amuses me to see others call Americans 'greedy' for land and then forget the European imperialists of the 16th-20th centuries who also took out native peoples on other continents. :rolleyes:

Hypocrites.
 
If Canada remains French and the Revolution still comes, could we see the remaining Bourbon royal family fleeing there, as happened with Portugal and Brazil (better to rule from a overseas territory than be a guest or prisoner in someone else's country)? The king (Louis XVIII?) could try to administrate the rest of the French Empire from there, as the Braganzas did from Rio. That could have interesting consequences if a restoration is achieved in France. The Canadians would be used to have a king there, and perhaps they could try an independence similar to the Brazilian one, with a monarch for them.
 
In OTL a guy by the name of Henri-Antoine Mezieres tried to get the Canadians to revolt with covert support from Citizen Genet. Mezieres reported the Canadians seemed pretty interested in revolting at least from British rule and setting up a republic and were apparently following the Revolution closely.

There's no British here in TTL, but the interest in the Revolution may remain yet...

Yeah, but in practice nothing happened.

I suspect the results would be more in line with - the revolutionary government sends someone over to run the place. He abolishes Seineurage, which would be pretty popular, and then the revolution spins out of control and the Church take it on the chin (which would be if anything even more unpopular in Quebec than in France) and from there... I have no clue, although I suspect the British would mount their by-now routine invasion of the place.
 
Regarding this and what Skokie said, it amuses me to see others call Americans 'greedy' for land and then forget the European imperialists of the 16th-20th centuries who also took out native peoples on other continents. :rolleyes:

Hypocrites.
Sorry I was saying that tongue in cheek, I should have been clearer.

In the case of New France in the revolution, because they would be surrounded and outnumbered, they'd probably play it smart by sitting down and shutting up. Declare loyalty to the French Monarch promise Britain they wouldn't do anything stupid, and possibly send some volunteers to fight for the French King beside the British.
This would definitely make the American colonies angry. They have the perfect chance to defeat New France and Britain not only doesn't let them, but supports the enemy. It could lead to a revolutionary war in North America.
 
Top