Viva Mexico -Divergence 1821 .(Please comment if you like)

Which time period should the divergence occur .

  • 1820-1825

    Votes: 40 67.8%
  • 1825-1830

    Votes: 5 8.5%
  • 1830-1840

    Votes: 8 13.6%
  • 1840-1850-

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • 1850-1856

    Votes: 12 20.3%

  • Total voters
    59
A Land deal,Rebellion put down and a dead president

Nicolas Bravo was a selfish man by nature not caring about anything but himself. Thus it is understandable he would choose southern lands that didn't even want to be Mexican over the less valuable Northern lands. For an overview of the situation while Mexico was embroiled in Civil War the southernmost provinces of the Empire forming The United Provinces of Central America This secession was declared Illegal by both government. After the conservatives and royalists won the civil war his majesty Emperor Sebastian's government quickly affirmed there commitment to put down the Empires traitorous provinces.

There was one problem though Mexico could barley pay for there army. There were many proposals but Bravo secretly developed a plan that would shock even the most greedy men. Bravo's plan was to sell all Mexican land north of the Rio Grande and once the border reached the source of the Rio Grande then the border would continue in a straight line to the pacific. In exchange for the sale of most of there Northern lands Bravo made it clear the U.S would have to assist Mexico in regaining the rebellious Central American provinces. So it was that on an early Tuesday morning Bravo announced the sale of the agreed to lands in exchange for military assistance.

Across Mexico there was outrage against the government with calls for Bravo to be strung up in front of the Congressional building. But the deal did pay off American forces landed in Veracruz and from there with some Mexican assistance crushed the disorganized rebels after a time period of around five months.


While the Americans dealt with rebels Mexico was in political turmoil again as the riots against the President grew the Congress passed an act declaring that they held no confidence in his majesty's current government and asked for Emperor Sebastian to invoke his emergency powers to call snap elections for the presidency. Bravo furious took five of his most loyal guards and confronted Sebastian. Bravo raged and raged but he made one final mistake he threatened to shoot Sebastian and Bravo was then subsequently shot by an overly loyal and nervous guard. So this is were we leave Mexico with a shot president upcoming snap elections trading Northern land to get back southern land.
 
French-Mexican Relations

In 1821, soon after obtaining independence from Spain the old Regent Iturbide sent diplomats to the Court of Louis XVlll King of France to establish diplomatic relations. However the Mexican diplomats were shunned in favor of France's Spanish alliance as it was believed that Spain was more valuable as a partner than Mexico could ever be. Another reason why France shunned Mexico was there crowning of Sebastian as king. Cause after all Sebastian had been smuggled out of Portugal by his relative the King of Portugal. This left a bitter taste in the King Louis's mouth as he saw himself as head of the Bourbon and all this had been done without his permission. But finally in On 26 November 1826, France proposed resolving the problem of recognition by establishing trade relations with a Mexican company, thus establishing unofficial relations with Mexico. But it wasn't until September 1830 that France recognized and established diplomatic relations with Mexico after the forced abdication of King Charles X and the removal of the French branch of the House of Bourbon from power. That same year, both nations opened resident diplomatic legations in each countries capitals, respectively.



diplomatic gathering
 
Mexican-British relations

After Mexico declared its independence in 1810, Britain was the first European great power to recognize Mexican sovereignty. Soon afterwards, the old regent Iturbide sent a diplomatic envoy to London to establish diplomatic communications between the two nations. In 1837, both nations signed a treaty to abolish the slave trade. The British established a network of merchant houses in the major cities. However, according to Hilarie J. Heath, the results were bleak. Trade was stagnant, imports did not pay, contraband drove prices down, debts private and public went unpaid, merchants suffered all manner of injustices and operated at the mercy of weak and corruptible governments, commercial houses skirted bankruptcy.
 
A Land deal,Rebellion put down and a dead president

Nicolas Bravo was a selfish man by nature not caring about anything but himself. Thus it is understandable he would choose southern lands that didn't even want to be Mexican over the less valuable Northern lands. For an overview of the situation while Mexico was embroiled in Civil War the southernmost provinces of the Empire forming The United Provinces of Central America This secession was declared Illegal by both government. After the conservatives and royalists won the civil war his majesty Emperor Sebastian's government quickly affirmed there commitment to put down the Empires traitorous provinces.

There was one problem though Mexico could barley pay for there army. There were many proposals but Bravo secretly developed a plan that would shock even the most greedy men. Bravo's plan was to sell all Mexican land north of the Rio Grande and once the border reached the source of the Rio Grande then the border would continue in a straight line to the pacific. In exchange for the sale of most of there Northern lands Bravo made it clear the U.S would have to assist Mexico in regaining the rebellious Central American provinces. So it was that on an early Tuesday morning Bravo announced the sale of the agreed to lands in exchange for military assistance.

Across Mexico there was outrage against the government with calls for Bravo to be strung up in front of the Congressional building. But the deal did pay off American forces landed in Veracruz and from there with some Mexican assistance crushed the disorganized rebels after a time period of around five months.


While the Americans dealt with rebels Mexico was in political turmoil again as the riots against the President grew the Congress passed an act declaring that they held no confidence in his majesty's current government and asked for Emperor Sebastian to invoke his emergency powers to call snap elections for the presidency. Bravo furious took five of his most loyal guards and confronted Sebastian. Bravo raged and raged but he made one final mistake he threatened to shoot Sebastian and Bravo was then subsequently shot by an overly loyal and nervous guard. So this is were we leave Mexico with a shot president upcoming snap elections trading Northern land to get back southern land.

This is not what I was expecting at all...in the 1820's?
 
Yucatan!!!!


At the dawn of Mexico’s independence, the province of Yucatán covered the entire peninsula. During the colonial period, it had come under the legal jurisdiction of the Viceroyalty of New Spain, although its highest official, the governor and captain general, operated autonomously from the viceroy of New Spain in matters of the militia and public administration.

In the absence of the governor and captain general, the mayor of Mérida took charge of the administrative functions and the king’s resident lieutenant in Campeche, the military ones. For the first half of the nineteenth century, Yucatán’s three main cities were Mérida, the administrative capital and the most densely populated; walled Campeche, the main port and richest city; and Valladolid, which commanded the densely populated eastern part of the peninsula. From the time of Spanish domination and during the nineteenth century, these cities’ local governments (cabildos) and elites competed and made alliances with each other to gain political control of the region.

In September 1821, news arrived to the port of Campeche about the advance of the Army of Three Guarantees y and the signing of the Treaties of Córdova agreeing on independence from Spain. On September 13, the mayor and deputy political head of the area, Miguel Duque de Estrada, the City Council, the king’s lieutenant and the military commanders of the port city came out for the independence of Yucatán from Spain, calling on the provincial authorities in Mérida to join them in their proclamation.

For his part, Juan María de Echeverri, governor and captain general of Yucatán, met with the Provincial Deputyship and Mérida’s main officials to declare the independence of Yucatán. That was on September 15, but the declaration of independence was cautious because it did not include Yucatán’s integration into the new Mexican state pending the outcome of the independence movement in New Spain. Campeche’s cabildo pressured the provincial authorities to make independence effective; it joined the Mexican Empire, and on November 2 managed to get the Yucatán Provincial Deputyship to issue a decree about this. Echeverri resigned from his post arguing that his loyalty to the Spanish government was incompatible with a break with Spain.

The peninsula was left without its highest official. This led to clashes between the authorities of Mérida and Campeche; therefore, Augustín de Iturbide, who consummated independence and was declared Regent of Mexico sent Melchor Álvarez as military commander and interim head of Yucatán’s executive. When Iturbide fell in 1823, the Provincial Deputyship came out in favor of Yucatán becoming a federal republic and joining Mexico only if the country did likewise. The provincial body gave way to the first Constituent Congress, which met from 1823 to 1825.

The Yucatán legislature suspended the national decree ordering a declaration of war on Spain in 1823, arguing that it would affect trade with Cuba —still a Spanish colony— and that the central authorities would not guarantee the defense of the peninsula in case of a Spanish attack nor pay for its cost. Conditioning entry into the new Mexican nation and delaying the declaration of war on Spain caused the Yucatán Constituent Congress to be seriously questioned. The Campeche City Council and authorities declared themselves in rebellion. The legislature tried to offset these unfortunate events by naming Campeche-born Francisco Antonio de Tarrazo governor. However, the conflicts continued, so the central government sent Antonio López Santa Anna as general commander to Yucatán to try to resolve them. In the end, López de Santa Anna occupied the executive and published the first local Constitution in 1825. Finally, national and internal pressure forced Yucatán to declare war, Santa Anna was recalled from the peninsula, and José Tiburcio López occupied the governorship from 1825 to 1829.
 
What did you expect? Me and my co-writer are always open to suggestions.

First I should say that I like this timeline and have enjoyed reading it. It does show a good amount of knowledge/research on the subject. It's just that I was under the impression that the Congress would have to approve that and I don't see that happening.

I would have expected Bravo to go after Cuba. Central America is too much effort for too little reward, not much different than the northern territories. Sure, Central America has strong population centers but they are just as full of problems as the cities in Mexico. They are also only accessible by ship at the moment so it makes them remote. And the population is prone to rebellion...they left Mexico after all. So Bravo decides to let go what is still part of Mexico, give it to a potential northern rival, and mount a highly expensive military expedition to strategically unimportant territories.

Cuba on the other hand would be valuable for a few reasons. First, it would force Spain back to the table about that pesky recognition. At this point Spain is still trying to retake Mexico. They didn't give up in the OTL until I think 1836. An earlier recognition would mean better deals with France and other European nations. Maybe even some legitimacy/recognition for Sebastian I. Second, it gives Mexico access to the highly lucrative sugarcane industry (speaking of Mexico's money problems). Third, It's a population that will technically be "liberated" versus snuffing out an independent nation. And a final reason, it might make Sebastian I a bit more popular in Mexico after having vanquished the hated Spaniards and also provide Mexico with a certain level of prestige in the world stage. The US would be a lot more willing to participate with that which brings me to another point.

How on earth would the US congress ever authorize such a military expedition? How would the northern states react to the possibility of new slave states as the result of the new territory? Texas just barely got annex, it was a narrow vote in the context of a contentious national election. The North would have left the union themselves if American troops went to fight another country's war. The US had enough political will to buy land, not get involved in the affairs of other nations. It's a lot to ask the US to help invade another nation, but not as much to help "liberate" a people.

As for suggestions? I would suggest Selling maybe the easternmost and the northernmost parts of Texas with the northern third of OTL Arizona, New Mexico, California, and everything above them. Assuming Bravo felt that Texas was a lost cause, that wouldn't be too much of a hard sell. But I doubt any Congress would consider it until the Texans rebel. I imagine Mexico would quash any such rebellion without Santa Ana's ineptitude. I mean, honestly, had he come down with the flu and stayed in Mexico City, his generals would have defeated the Texan army. That may convinced Mexico that Texas was more trouble than it was worth and it looked better if they sold it with some guarantees, such as providing Mexico with money, ships, volunteers, weapons, supplies and a carte blanche to take Cuba. The US would get its destiny manifested, and help remove another pesky European kingdom from the western hemisphere without spilling a drop of blood...and have a nice little ally to the south.

Just some thoughts...
 
First I should say that I like this timeline and have enjoyed reading it. It does show a good amount of knowledge/research on the subject. It's just that I was under the impression that the Congress would have to approve that and I don't see that happening.

I would have expected Bravo to go after Cuba. Central America is too much effort for too little reward, not much different than the northern territories. Sure, Central America has strong population centers but they are just as full of problems as the cities in Mexico. They are also only accessible by ship at the moment so it makes them remote. And the population is prone to rebellion...they left Mexico after all. So Bravo decides to let go what is still part of Mexico, give it to a potential northern rival, and mount a highly expensive military expedition to strategically unimportant territories.

Cuba on the other hand would be valuable for a few reasons. First, it would force Spain back to the table about that pesky recognition. At this point Spain is still trying to retake Mexico. They didn't give up in the OTL until I think 1836. An earlier recognition would mean better deals with France and other European nations. Maybe even some legitimacy/recognition for Sebastian I. Second, it gives Mexico access to the highly lucrative sugarcane industry (speaking of Mexico's money problems). Third, It's a population that will technically be "liberated" versus snuffing out an independent nation. And a final reason, it might make Sebastian I a bit more popular in Mexico after having vanquished the hated Spaniards and also provide Mexico with a certain level of prestige in the world stage. The US would be a lot more willing to participate with that which brings me to another point.

How on earth would the US congress ever authorize such a military expedition? How would the northern states react to the possibility of new slave states as the result of the new territory? Texas just barely got annex, it was a narrow vote in the context of a contentious national election. The North would have left the union themselves if American troops went to fight another country's war. The US had enough political will to buy land, not get involved in the affairs of other nations. It's a lot to ask the US to help invade another nation, but not as much to help "liberate" a people.

As for suggestions? I would suggest Selling maybe the easternmost and the northernmost parts of Texas with the northern third of OTL Arizona, New Mexico, California, and everything above them. Assuming Bravo felt that Texas was a lost cause, that wouldn't be too much of a hard sell. But I doubt any Congress would consider it until the Texans rebel. I imagine Mexico would quash any such rebellion without Santa Ana's ineptitude. I mean, honestly, had he come down with the flu and stayed in Mexico City, his generals would have defeated the Texan army. That may convinced Mexico that Texas was more trouble than it was worth and it looked better if they sold it with some guarantees, such as providing Mexico with money, ships, volunteers, weapons, supplies and a carte blanche to take Cuba. The US would get its destiny manifested, and help remove another pesky European kingdom from the western hemisphere without spilling a drop of blood...and have a nice little ally to the south.

Just some thoughts...

One Bravo went behind the Congress's back and did not inform them of the plan until it was already in motion. Two Bravo was a greedy and short sighted man who focused on short term goals not long term goals like Cuba. As for U.S legislature approval I thought it would pass once it was explained that a good number of free states could be made out of that newly purchased land.
 

mad orc

Banned
First I should say that I like this timeline and have enjoyed reading it. It does show a good amount of knowledge/research on the subject. It's just that I was under the impression that the Congress would have to approve that and I don't see that happening.

I would have expected Bravo to go after Cuba. Central America is too much effort for too little reward, not much different than the northern territories. Sure, Central America has strong population centers but they are just as full of problems as the cities in Mexico. They are also only accessible by ship at the moment so it makes them remote. And the population is prone to rebellion...they left Mexico after all. So Bravo decides to let go what is still part of Mexico, give it to a potential northern rival, and mount a highly expensive military expedition to strategically unimportant territories.

Cuba on the other hand would be valuable for a few reasons. First, it would force Spain back to the table about that pesky recognition. At this point Spain is still trying to retake Mexico. They didn't give up in the OTL until I think 1836. An earlier recognition would mean better deals with France and other European nations. Maybe even some legitimacy/recognition for Sebastian I. Second, it gives Mexico access to the highly lucrative sugarcane industry (speaking of Mexico's money problems). Third, It's a population that will technically be "liberated" versus snuffing out an independent nation. And a final reason, it might make Sebastian I a bit more popular in Mexico after having vanquished the hated Spaniards and also provide Mexico with a certain level of prestige in the world stage. The US would be a lot more willing to participate with that which brings me to another point.

How on earth would the US congress ever authorize such a military expedition? How would the northern states react to the possibility of new slave states as the result of the new territory? Texas just barely got annex, it was a narrow vote in the context of a contentious national election. The North would have left the union themselves if American troops went to fight another country's war. The US had enough political will to buy land, not get involved in the affairs of other nations. It's a lot to ask the US to help invade another nation, but not as much to help "liberate" a people.

As for suggestions? I would suggest Selling maybe the easternmost and the northernmost parts of Texas with the northern third of OTL Arizona, New Mexico, California, and everything above them. Assuming Bravo felt that Texas was a lost cause, that wouldn't be too much of a hard sell. But I doubt any Congress would consider it until the Texans rebel. I imagine Mexico would quash any such rebellion without Santa Ana's ineptitude. I mean, honestly, had he come down with the flu and stayed in Mexico City, his generals would have defeated the Texan army. That may convinced Mexico that Texas was more trouble than it was worth and it looked better if they sold it with some guarantees, such as providing Mexico with money, ships, volunteers, weapons, supplies and a carte blanche to take Cuba. The US would get its destiny manifested, and help remove another pesky European kingdom from the western hemisphere without spilling a drop of blood...and have a nice little ally to the south.

Just some thoughts...

Umm, i agree with your suggestions, but every history on these forums needs one lucky break, one chance to have such a kind of thing which is slightly improbable, i think that this is our that chance, from here on, we are gonna stick to realism.

To southern Pride -Great chapter man !
 

mad orc

Banned
Snap.

Thus the snap elections of 1827 now saw the guilty Conservatives and the recovered Moderados(Half of their ranks were filled with conservatives and members of the Scottish lodge who were smart enough).

The conservatives were now lead by Juan Almonte, with such shame, there was only one basis on which this son of Morelos could campaign.....................yes you guessed it right, his divine father.

200px-Juan_Nepomuceno_Almonte_%282%29.jpg


The moderates, they were led by Manuel Gomez Pedraza.
220px-Manuel_G%C3%B3mez_Pedraza.png


Thankfully, this period turned out to be quiet peaceful by Mexican standards. Peace in practical terms that is, almost every man in Mexico from the lowliest of Indijo to the richest of Caudillos wanted war with the United States.
Pedraza declared that the sale of territory to the US was illegal.

Fortunately or unfortunately, Mexico had no resources to fight such a war. The Americans, they were even more intelligent.
They assured Pedraza that if and when he became the president, they would lobby to remove all Spanish blocklades existing on Mexico.

As it turned out, Pedrazas won by a landslide and became the fourth president of Mexico in 1827.
700px-Flag_of_Mexico_%281823-1864%2C_1867-1893%29.svg.png


Pedraza's regime turned out to be the most secure presidential term ever in Mexico since 1821.

It was also during his regime that the Emperor Sebastian I decided to look for a bride. Pedraza's resulting indifference on the whole matter confirmed that the two points of government in Mexico had separated at last.

Pedraza's term ended in 1831, quite safely, he was also one of those rare Mexican leaders to complete their terms.

In his term a lot of changes had taken place, France had opened official relations with Mexico.The emperor was still unmarried despite his earlier views, but most importantly, there was talk of war.
 
Umm, i agree with your suggestions, but every history on these forums needs one lucky break, one chance to have such a kind of thing which is slightly improbable, i think that this is our that chance, from here on, we are gonna stick to realism.

To southern Pride -Great chapter man !

Fair enough.

Snap.

Thus the snap elections of 1827 now saw the guilty Conservatives and the recovered Moderados(Half of their ranks were filled with conservatives and members of the Scottish lodge who were smart enough).

The conservatives were now lead by Juan Almonte, with such shame, there was only one basis on which this son of Morelos could campaign.....................yes you guessed it right, his divine father.



The moderates, they were led by Manuel Gomez Pedraza.


Thankfully, this period turned out to be quiet peaceful by Mexican standards. Peace in practical terms that is, almost every man in Mexico from the lowliest of Indijo to the richest of Caudillos wanted war with the United States.
Pedraza declared that the sale of territory to the US was illegal.

Fortunately or unfortunately, Mexico had no resources to fight such a war. The Americans, they were even more intelligent.
They assured Pedraza that if and when he became the president, they would lobby to remove all Spanish blocklades existing on Mexico.

As it turned out, Pedrazas won by a landslide and became the fourth president of Mexico in 1827.


Pedraza's regime turned out to be the most secure presidential term ever in Mexico since 1821.

It was also during his regime that the Emperor Sebastian I decided to look for a bride. Pedraza's resulting indifference on the whole matter confirmed that the two points of government in Mexico had separated at last.

Pedraza's term ended in 1831, quite safely, he was also one of those rare Mexican leaders to complete their terms.

In his term a lot of changes had taken place, France had opened official relations with Mexico.The emperor was still unmarried despite his earlier views, but most importantly, there was talk of war.

I like where this may be going. I imagine military reforms may probably be the next step? If everyone is united in this war, the US could have a harder time dealing with Mexico.
 

mad orc

Banned
The same thing again.

The elections of 1831 were dominated by the fact that Mexico's beloved leader Pedrazas had refused a second term in favour of managing his voluminous estates and his unruly sons. This must have been a sad turn of events for the moderates because now they were virtually leaderless, there was no one who could combat Juan Almonte in the field of politics. So, from February 1831 to July 1831, the formality of election was carried out, Pedrazas must have been really tired after ruling four years because he ignored the fact that the moderates received a huge defeat in the elections for the principal reason that there was no leader like face to combat the son of Morelos. His only comment was that

"By electing a tyrant like Almonte, the Mexicans have forgotten the actions of our late general Nicolas Bravo and his evil deal with the devils up north" .

In December that year, at the magnificent hall at Mexico city, Almonte officially signed the land deal with the Americans. He quoted,

"If our previous president cared so much about that hellish worthless land up north, then what was he doing for 4 long years, playing dice?"

One of the first major things that he did in his reign was one of its most interesting.

Piracy had for long been the bane of the Carribean, it did not end 100% in the 17th and 18th centuries as many claim, in fact it persisted in a lot of regions until the 1820s when the last of these degenerates were finally crushed. But the last 'Pirate of the Carribean' ever was only crushed in 1832 !

This lawless man was Bernardo Allende.

dupin.gif


Don't let the savvy clothes fool you. This man looted 17 ships in his reign of terror from 1809 to 1832, one of them being a semi steam ship !

On 18th January 1832, he planned to pillage the small fishing village of Sevour on the Yucatan coast because its headman had refused to pay 'Protection money' earlier. However, imperial troops knew of the plan and ambushed him and his forces, defeating him and capturing him alive. He was subsequently taken to Mexico where the government planned to have him hanged publicly, however he died on the way due to disease.

The main reason for the importance of this singular event apart from this being the crushing of the last 'Çliche pirate' is that this was one of those operations in which the emperor himself took a dominant hand. This entire capture was planned and executed under the leadership of the imperial government rather than the presidential one.

But larger events related to the emperor were soon to take place, for in 1832 the emperor once more announced his wish to marry, he wished to marry the daughter of a local landowner or noble to make himself and his line more Mexican. However the more practical Juan Almonte preferred that the emperor married to some European royal instead to improve relations and heal past wounds.
 
Last edited:
In about say...18 years Almonte is really going to kick himself for giving up California...Allende sounds vaguely familiar...hmmm
 

mad orc

Banned
Welcome back @mad orc now, well mexico is still screwed

Yeah, kinda, but the situation of the early 1830s in this TL is much better than RL.
Thanks so much for commenting as always my good man.

In about say...18 years Almonte is really going to kick himself for giving up California...Allende sounds vaguely familiar...hmmm

HOHOHO, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Thanks for commenting man. Hope Almonte is not really pissed off, assuming that he lives to see 1848...................snigger..........

from what me and mad orc discussed Mexico will have more land than OTL but still he will loose most of the undiscovered gold fields

Correct.
 
A Fallen Republic

guatemala-20-quetzales-reverse-2008.jpg
guatemala-20-front.jpg



the images on the front and back of this Guatemalan banknote constitute “bookends” for the very short lived Republic of Central America which rebelled against Mexico in 1823 formerly declaring Independence on July 1,1823. But unfortunately for the Republic of Central America and fortunately for Mexico the rebellion was crushed with U.S assistance with the Republic formerly surrendering on November,14,1824. Though the constitution of the Republic was not that much different from the so called Tyranny of Emperor Sebastian's constitution with the main difference being there's called for a Republic. They drew up a constitution that provided for a federal capital in Guatemala City and a president for each of the five constituent states, which were to enjoy complete local autonomy; suffrage was restricted to the upper classes, slavery was abolished, and the privileges of the Roman Catholic church were maintained.

This was basically Mexico's constitution with a few differences like a Republic versus a Monarchy and while the Republic's constitution formally outlawed slavery Mexico's constitution only effectively abolished it meaning slavery was technically still legal in Mexico. But none of that matters now as after U.S forces landed in Veracruz they helped Mexico crush the Republic. Currently the states of the former Republic are majorly unstable with a Liberal Governor elected to the executive of Guatemala but a Conservative legislature in place With the other states having similar situations except in reverse. But only time will tell how the former Republic fares in the fabric of Mexico and it's tremulous politics.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Top