Visigothic Spain

France always had a larger population than Iberia. Geography makes it a challenge for France to dominate Spain but it would theoretically have the edge in manpower.
Population? Demographics? What? Are you saying that the population growth over a 1000 year period is predestined to resemble OTL? I said before in this thread that Iberia in TTL would be a blank canvas. That includes demographics. It is odd to fortel that a peaceful Iberia over a 1000 year period could not approach or overtake France in population. So maybe in one scenario TTL Iberia gets screwed over and has less population than France. Or France could get screwed and Iberia will have a greater population than France because Iberia in OTL never approached its carrying capacity. Instead of developing its own resources and population, it suctioned away those from the Americas.

We need to consider what would be the hypothetical maximum carrying capacity of the Iberian peninsula given the technology available in a given time period. Feudalism is a great way of filling up vacant land with people. Spain and Portugal in OTL no sooner had completed the Reconqestia than they discovered the Americas. We need to consider the demographics of an Iberia that can simply spend 1000 years just increasing its population and filling up every nook and cranny of its geography. How many people could the Tigus watershed support if it had the same population density as the Rhine or the Nile?

There is also the political considerations. A generation after the Reconqestia was complete, Spain was contesting France's spot Europe's dominant land power. Countries that share borders are rarely friends so I doubt a Visigothic Iberia would be staying in a subordinate position. They could be pretty soon be France's major rival in Europe and a major European power.
 
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Here's a mappo for public utility:

1024px-Hispania_700_AD.PNG


In case of a failed Arab invasion of Iberia, i can see the marcher lords of Baetica gaining some prestige for being "the first barrier of Iberia against the Moor".
Still, i can't predict any major effects on Portugal/Lusitania's potential maritime prowess.
If the feudal Visigothic Spanish kingdom keeps Septimania, then it is likely that they'll come into conflict with Francia.
 
Population? Demographics? What? Are you saying that the population growth over a 1000 year period is predestined to resemble OTL? I said before in this thread that Iberia in TTL would be a blank canvas. That includes demographics. It is odd to fortel that a peaceful Iberia over a 1000 year period could not approach or overtake France in population. So maybe in one scenario TTL Iberia gets screwed over and has less population than France. Or France could get screwed and Iberia will have a greater population than France because Iberia in OTL never approached its carrying capacity. Instead of developing its own resources and population, it suctioned away those from the Americas.

We need to consider what would be the hypothetical maximum carrying capacity of the Iberian peninsula given the technology available in a given time period. Feudalism is a great way of filling up vacant land with people. Spain and Portugal in OTL no sooner had completed the Reconqestia than they discovered the Americas. We need to consider the demographics of an Iberia that can simply spend 1000 years just increasing its population and filling up every nook and cranny of its geography. How many people could the Tigus watershed support if it had the same population density as the Rhine or the Nile?

There is also the political considerations. A generation after the Reconqestia was complete, Spain was contesting France's spot Europe's dominant land power. Countries that share borders are rarely friends so I doubt a Visigothic Iberia would be staying in a subordinate position. They could be pretty soon be France's major rival in Europe and a major European power.

Gaul/France has always had more people than Iberia. This isn't due to the last millennium ; it was true in ancient times and France has never lost the advantage. In fact, OTL Spain/Portugal have actually caught up a lot in the last 200 years. Spain became dominant on the European stage OTL because it was part of the Habsburg inheritance and had a ton of gold and silver from the Americas. With only its Iberian territory, it probably could not have risen so high.

Now of course it's true that France is not always predestined to be a single country - perhaps the Hundred Years' War ends with a permanent split, for instance. But if it is unified, it has a good chance of being a hegemonic power - although geography suggests that a French monarch will look first to the flat lands to the north/east, rather than try to cross the Pyrénées and conquer Spain.
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
The Iberian Peninsula and "Gaul" have different soils and different rainfall - "Gaul" will have a larger population.
It can be said that France as encompassing everything north of the Pyrenees came about as an accident - Aquitania had revolted/been spun off several times and reconquered. If the Merovingian/Arnulfid assigned to Touluse is competent and has competent heirs, a France/Francia with border on the Loire is highly plausible.
Meh - have Alienore of Acquitaine been born with a cock ...
 
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