Vinland Superpower
- Thread starter anw_rev
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If England / Scotland / Ireland / France were better defended then the Norse would need to look elsewhere for new lands and Vinland may become more popular as a destination for settlement.
The next stage would be survival in the cooling weather. I know that the Norse are used to snow but Vinland would be a challange even for them. Possible to have a migration south into modern day Canada / America?
The next stage would be survival in the cooling weather. I know that the Norse are used to snow but Vinland would be a challange even for them. Possible to have a migration south into modern day Canada / America?
ingemann
Banned
If Vinland survived and either stayed united or reunited (German-style), it would likely make up at the very least most of USA and Canada, while at the same time the close connection with Europe would allow it to be part of the internal European technological transfer. As such it's hard to see how it could avoid becoming a superpower.
Well if it gets established and if you throw the right diseases at the locals to cut down on competition (for a good long while) it shouldn't be too hard. You really don't need many people in an initial population if there's plenty of land to go around to explode into something major demographically. Most Quebecois are descended from a ridiculously small founder population.
What other options?
The other option is "Everyone starves to death".
Less likely in Vinland than on Greenland.
Neither Iceland nor Faroes died off.
Starvation, disease, and natural disaster (not necessarily only one of the three) are what come to mind for me.
Iceland and the Faroes succeeding isn't a guarantee Vinland will.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=180065
I'm not sure that northern North America is really that similar to warmed-by-the-Gulf-Stream Scandinavia, looking at the most recent comment.
But even if it is, that's not really a reason to move TO there.
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Getting Vinland to survive and thrive is one thing. But it would take centuries of steady population growth, constant access to the the sea, successful campaigning against expansionist American tribal groups like the Iroquois, and it will certainly need some level of contact with Europe, mostly via Iceland, to not lag completely behind in tech-development. One way of doing the latter would be to trade native crops and plants to Europe before anyone else.
After they are able to keep a strong-enough presence in one or two areas of Newfoundland, they should always make sure that further settlements should stay close to the coast or an estuary. Mastery over the water would be one advantage over possible native enemies. They also must try to keep hold of their knowledge of iron-smelting, and keep as many horses as well. Perhaps some horse-breeds from France and England would have made their way to Norse America via their trading ties with Iceland.
And, if they could stay secure enough in their position and relatively unified early enough, see that they could find the economic motivation to trade far beyond their geographic position as far as the Caribbean, central and South America. If somehow they could establish contact with the Incas before the Spanish or whoever start setting up colonies, so they could bring the potato to Vinland, that may boost their demographics long-term.
I would say that 'going Viking' won't always be the best option, as they should be traders first and colonizers second. Their area of settlement should stay largely within the Canadian maritime provinces, with the odd trading emporiums as far as the Great Lakes region and, later, the Caribbean Sea.
Vinland surviving the its first century and becoming a regional power are two different things. You'll really need to plan ahead, here.
When did Iroquois expansion start OTL?
Native crops may or may not be the most profitable exports.
What was Greenland exporting? And what was Novgorod exporting to Europe?
Compare the huge areas where French traded. Or Hudson Bay Company.
I believe Greenland was exporting Walrus Ivory, and wasn't Novgorod in the Fur Trade?
Suddenly I have images of Leif Erikson and a bunch of Norsemen in horned helmets (ahistoric, I know) at the first Thanksgiving...
The few Scandinavian settlers wouldn't have the population for that.
Furs, from the tribute system. Also, more locally, salt. Those are the two big trade items. Fish (dried/salt) starting in the 15th c.
However the most important sector according to some studies was not bulk commodities trade as much as crafts and retail.
In addition it was a transit points for oriental goods (cloth and such), as well as (before the 12th c.) a major source of silver coming into Northern Europe (again from Central Asia).
There native homeland was upstate New York, with other tribes living as far as Montreal Island and the Gaspe Peninsula in Quebec. By about 1000 CE, they're settled and practising agriculture. And being close to the Great Lakes, they would be amongst the first societies trading with the Norse and at some point, would have the concentration of numbers to oppose them.
Tobacco certainly would be.
Walrus ivory and furs from Greenland. From eastern Canada, there would be other natural resources worth trading. Gold can be found in Nova Scotia and New Brunswick. If they would establish settlements close to sites like the Moose River, wouldn't this gradually put them above barter?
FDW
Banned
If it survives, I can see it dominating the Northeast. But expansion for it would be slower and more difficult than it was for the US, and chances are that a significant chunk of the Norse technology package ends up being adopted by the Natives by the time the Norse themselves are ready to expand.