Viking exploration never ends

i have thought about this for long what if the vikings (Scandinavians) lust for exploration and colonization never ended after the viking ages end the Scandinavians still traded all around europé and the middle east what would happen would whit better weapons and ships have taken north America most of all the vikings liked to trade so if the just could find Mexico or get to west Africa they would become very rich because of gold ivory tropical wood and coco the list goes on. so what would happen whit this world?
 

Redbeard

Banned
We haven't stopped. We just take a brief pause until be have built a propper spaceship...;)

Sorry, couldn't resist, but that might also be something genetic... :)
But to be serious I think it would be possible to find PoDs for a lasting Norse colonisation on the N.American continent.

Perhaps just a butterfly like a series of dudes coming back from trips to the American east coast and also being good storytellers/salesmen.

The Scandinavian area really doesn't have the population to alone populate America, but if we also include a Viking North Sea Empire like under OTL Canute and have it last a little longer, then we might have substantial settlements in N. America before the plague sets in by mid 13th century.
 
i have thought about this for long what if the vikings (Scandinavians) lust for exploration and colonization never ended after the viking ages end the Scandinavians still traded all around europé and the middle east what would happen would whit better weapons and ships have taken north America most of all the vikings liked to trade so if the just could find Mexico or get to west Africa they would become very rich because of gold ivory tropical wood and coco the list goes on. so what would happen whit this world?

It didn't, that's why the Scandinavians spent most of the Late Medieval/Early Modern Period colonising the Baltic and later each built a compact but respectible colonial empire (including some settlements/trading posts in modern Ghana) for their small size and general focus on Europe.

The biggest flaw was not going back to Vinland in the 15th century or so and getting a leg up on other Europeans in the Grand Banks cod trade and especially the fur trade.

The Scandinavian area really doesn't have the population to alone populate America, but if we also include a Viking North Sea Empire like under OTL Canute and have it last a little longer, then we might have substantial settlements in N. America before the plague sets in by mid 13th century.

Not necessarily true, the natural growth rate of the North American population (north of Virginia or so) combined with Scandinavia exporting as large of a proportion of its population as Portugal did during the 16th-19th centuries could get you to fill the place up although it would probably take many centuries and eventually other Europeans will come in and compete with your colonies. Thus that's why you start small with Newfoundland.
 
It didn't, that's why the Scandinavians spent most of the Late Medieval/Early Modern Period colonising the Baltic and later each built a compact but respectible colonial empire (including some settlements/trading posts in modern Ghana) for their small size and general focus on Europe.

The biggest flaw was not going back to Vinland in the 15th century or so and getting a leg up on other Europeans in the Grand Banks cod trade and especially the fur trade.


that is true but what i mean is in the Late Medieval/Early Modern that they reach west africa and maybe settlements in vinland
 
the thing is that whit a north amercan colony the Scandinavians would have what the rest of europé at the time of the Medieval age did not have a place to send aces population to like vinland you see in europé before the plague hit Scandinavian there was not land to everyone to work whit america there would be a lot of land to farm that could lead to a the plague not hitting as hard as it did in real life
 
the thing is that whit a north amercan colony the Scandinavians would have what the rest of europé at the time of the Medieval age did not have a place to send aces population to like vinland you see in europé before the plague hit Scandinavian there was not land to everyone to work whit america there would be a lot of land to farm that could lead to a the plague not hitting as hard as it did in real life

When Scandinavians needed to send away excess people (the amount of people was not vast given the low population), they had all of the Baltic and Eastern Europe to work with. Shipping people and supplies to and from Eastern Europe is far, far easier with medieval tech than shipping all the way to North America. The Americas also have very little to offer until they find gold (even the Georgia/Carolina gold is pretty inland) or the larger civilisations (Mississippians and of course Mesoamericans who are pretty far away from the North Atlantic). The native people are probably about as thick on the ground as the Slavs, Balts, etc. and the Scandinavians have no appreciable advantage over them in weaponry at least until the diseases cross over (give it a generation of sustained colonisation, it isn't happening on day two) and take their full effect. But given that nations decimated by apocalyptic levels of disease for decades (if not longer) put up a great fight against British (and later Americans) who were far better supplied and held a significant advantage in technology, you can't really get appreciable colonisation of North America. Outside of Newfoundland, which had a relatively small population which within a generation could be wiped out/assimilated.

So overall not a good idea. Trade with West Africa is probably a better one though. West Africa has plenty of resources as you mentioned. If you want your colonisation, you have Madeira and Cape Verde as completely virgin lands. The problem lies in the shipbuilding capabilities of northern Europeans as well as the fact that Africa is a big place, and the coast has tons of difficult/dangerous obstacles to navigate around. That's part of the reason why it took Europeans so long to do so--it just wasn't worth the effort/risk when you could instead buy it from North Africans.
 
Assuming we keep Viking civilization alive through every succession and technological development, there is the minor problem that they would eventually run out of arable land to explore.
 
A significant reason for the near-loss of contact with Greenland (and consequently Markland and Vinland) was the 110 years of civil war the Kingdom of Norway went through during 1130-1240. Secure the succession of Sigurd the Crusader, and you might see a much more outward-looking Norwegian Empire continue colonization.
 
A significant reason for the near-loss of contact with Greenland (and consequently Markland and Vinland) was the 110 years of civil war the Kingdom of Norway went through during 1130-1240. Secure the succession of Sigurd the Crusader, and you might see a much more outward-looking Norwegian Empire continue colonization.

Certainly, but you still have the fact that Vinland/Markland is basically just a place Greenlanders go to get timber. And once the Little Ice Age comes, Greenland is going to be in for a lot of problems. IMO Greenland's main value in the late Middle Ages and early modern times is it's use as a friendly port on the way to North America. I wonder if Norway had remained independent, or its Danish overlords took Norway's North Atlantic assets (Faroes/Iceland/Greenland) into consideration when devising foreign policy, would they have focused on the New World the same way Denmark and Sweden had such an emphasis on the Baltic? The Grand Banks and the fur trade (although the stocks of fur in Scandinavia, Finland especially, weren't quite as depleted in that era as they would be later on) are two potentially big draws, and it's reasonable to assume that (Denmark-)Norway has a claim on Vinland and Markland thanks to the Viking era (although such claims mean nothing if other nations won't recognise them).
 
would they have focused on the New World the same way Denmark and Sweden had such an emphasis on the Baltic?

That is why 1130 is the most interesting Norse PoD -- it is probably the last time before the 20th century where Norway was independent, powerful, and on good terms with the rest of Scandinavia. For Sweden and Denmark, both major commercial powers in the Baltic, a focus on colonizing and fighting the people responsible for the majority of pirate attacks in the area is the most reasonable thing to do. It is more questionable whether an independent Norway would have followed the same logic.

The little ice age is a problem for Greenland, but 1130 is early enough that major New World-settlements could be established. Fur trade, easily accessible iron, and the Grand Banks are all tempting prizes.
 
That is why 1130 is the most interesting Norse PoD -- it is probably the last time before the 20th century where Norway was independent, powerful, and on good terms with the rest of Scandinavia. For Sweden and Denmark, both major commercial powers in the Baltic, a focus on colonizing and fighting the people responsible for the majority of pirate attacks in the area is the most reasonable thing to do. It is more questionable whether an independent Norway would have followed the same logic.

The little ice age is a problem for Greenland, but 1130 is early enough that major New World-settlements could be established. Fur trade, easily accessible iron, and the Grand Banks are all tempting prizes.

Yes, Vinland could be established and maintained. Once the Beothuk are defeated (they numbered no more than 2,000 and enough colonists winning enough battles would subdue them), Vinland (at least Newfoundland) becomes an important colony which can export timber to Newfoundland and trade with other American Indian groups like the Mi'kmaq (or groups further south), although they'll probably eventually expand and dominate them. But the big problem remains in shipping, where we need to ask if cod from Grand Banks can compete with cod from other places, or if the Vinland/North America fur trade can compete with the fur trade from elsewhere in Scandinavia (or Russia). The economics of this question are different in the early 12th century than they are in the early 16th century with the start of the age of discovery in Europe.
 
So... After exploring all of North America by, say 1400, they do South America by 1550 or so. Then cross the Pacific, reaching Hawaii and the Aleutians by 1450, Japan by 1500. Vladivesti (otl vladivostok) settled 1550, and soon thereafter Norse from Scandinavia reach that far east.

Slow expansion south. Philippines by 1550, Indonesia 1600, Sudland (Australia) by 1650. Exploration and settlements reach all that continent by 1750.

Again, by 1550 they have ports or provisioning and trading stations all the way around Africa, alternating with the Portuguese.

Settlements in Southern Africa start about then, And the south And high veldt is Norse controlled by about 1700.

Norse explorers then tackle the interior. Said Norse may well have black skin and curly hair, BTW. By 1800, that's done.

First man to reach the North Pole is Norse, about that same time 1800, and the South Pole and Mt Everest are reached by 1850.

Since all land areas have been reached, the Norse lead the way in ballooning, then aeronautics, and also ocean exploration.

The bottom of the Mariana's trench has been reached, and low earth orbit reached by 1950.

The Moon is reached by 2000, with a Moon base following. By 2050 the lunar settlements are thriving, producing metal and oxygen for space settlements and industry. Njalsstad is a large settlement at L5. The experiment with a low pressure high oxygen atmosphere in the colony led, of course, to the horrendous fire there. Burnt Njal (brennu Njals Saga), the story of the disaster and investigation that followed won the Nobel and the Pulitzer.

By 2050, a small base has been established on Mars, and asteroid mining has started.

The first (unmanned, obviously) interstellar probe is launched by 2100. This craft somewhat resembles Project Daedalus.

By 2200 the Solar system is thoroughly settled. Nynorsk is the lingua Franca of all humans, being the first language of several billion and fluency is required for any technical or international communication.

2200 also marks the first crewed interstellar ship.
____
How's that?
 
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