Snake Featherston
Banned
All the same, it's still an occasion where in the Second Reich somebody who had an exaggerated view of his military genius assumed absolute power over Germany.
Views on Niall Ferguson's analysis of WW1
- Thread starter Caesar Australis
- Start date
All the same, it's still an occasion where in the Second Reich somebody who had an exaggerated view of his military genius assumed absolute power over Germany.
I Blame Communism
Banned
It's equally impossible to imagine a scenario in which there is no Protestant Reformation and the Nazis still take power.
Martin Luther, what have you done?
The line of argument started with Faeelin noting that "we know what German victory in eastern Europe would mean". As far as I'm concerned, we do indeed, and it's been shown in discussions where such claims have been raised. Certainly I've confronted them before.
Similar in respect of "guns for you if you fight the Bolshes", but for Estonia and Latvia, say, the difference would be pretty damn important.
Not really comparable. Ludendorff, as Mikestone said, rose through the millitary in a time of total war. Hitler rose by using the political situation in a post-Versailles Germany.
Faeelin
Banned
True, but I would argue that the military's actions during the war and after in OTL do not evidence a lot of respect for democracy and rule of law.
Snake Featherston
Banned
Having been sent to infiltrate the German Worker's Party while a soldier in the post-war Wehrmacht. He started his career at the suggestion of the military and Ludendorff actually backed Hitler's attempted coup.
Not really the issue here.
How exactly does this prove Hitler would gain absolute power without Versailles?
Faeelin
Banned
Why? I acknowledge that Adolf Hitler probably won't come to power. But I think a far right German militarist regime? Absolutely plausible.
There were some critical differences. Japan's constitution and laws explicitly said that the Army Minister must be filled by an active duty general. This gave the Army a de facto veto on the formation of any government because if it refused to provide a minister, there couldn't be a government. The Army Minister also reported directly to the Emperor, not the Prime Minister so the army was more or less autonomous. This was very different than the situation in Germany.
The second difference is that much of Japan's adventurism was a result of the junior officers in China deciding to cause problems (the various "incidents") to force the government (and top army brass) to follow its lead. It is hard to imagine any German officer in the field so unilaterally creating their own orders or acting in defiance of their own superior officers.
Both differences were instrumental in dismantling civilian rule in Japan, and really did not have counterparts in Germany.
In addition, after the Kapp Putsch the military generally had a good relationship with the Weimar Government. They might not have liked Weimar, but Weimar was generally friendly to the military's desires. The greater problem in Germany was the general right wing violence, often found outside the military, and that the judiciary and police who were dominated by conservatives and who rarely went after and punished right wing political criminals.
Not as long as people in post-war Germany are allowed to vote. Then, the share of the right-wing guys will shrink to less than 10 % in terms of seats.
If popular vote is avoided, yes, they might get their way. Imposing law and order might placate even the moderate socialists.
Snake Featherston
Banned
It doesn't. By the same token if the Junkers retain an absolute hold on power the Bohemian Corporal's very anti-Junker message may gain a good degree of support.