Vietnam air war- Eastern bloc volunteer pilot/s captured by US

[Melvin Loh]

According to the Vietnam air war episode on the SECRETS OF WAR series, tehre were rumours that volunteers from the USSR, Cuba, East Germany & other Eastern bloc countries were flying air-defence missions in NVAF MIGs against the might of the USAF & USN- although such rumours were never verified, with other allegations also being made that such claims of foreign involvement simply reflected patronising American attitudes of incredulity towards an enemy they considered backward or inferior & therefore who 'must' have sough assistance from 'real' pilots to fly their nice new MIGs for em. Now, WI such allegations had been proven true ? Say, if an NVAF MIG- piloted by a Soviet/Cuban/East German/whoever was shot down while pursuing US planes over the Gulf of Tonkin, or perhas after starying over the border into the DMZ, with said enemy pilot being somehow picked up by a USAF or USN CSAR helo ? How would evidence of direct Soviet bloc military involvement in Vietnam have affected the US conduct of the war in Vietnam ?

 

[NothingNow]

According to the Vietnam air war episode on the SECRETS OF WAR series, tehre were rumours that volunteers from the USSR, Cuba, East Germany & other Eastern bloc countries were flying air-defence missions in NVAF MIGs against the might of the USAF & USN- although such rumours were never verified, with other allegations also being made that such claims of foreign involvement simply reflected patronising American attitudes of incredulity towards an enemy they considered backward or inferior & therefore who 'must' have sough assistance from 'real' pilots to fly their nice new MIGs for em. Now, WI such allegations had been proven true ? Say, if an NVAF MIG- piloted by a Soviet/Cuban/East German/whoever was shot down while pursuing US planes over the Gulf of Tonkin, or perhas after starying over the border into the DMZ, with said enemy pilot being somehow picked up by a USAF or USN CSAR helo ? How would evidence of direct Soviet bloc military involvement in Vietnam have affected the US conduct of the war in Vietnam ?

WW3 if WP pilot. NATO would be pissed. Conventional War is guaranteed. If Pilot is Cuban expect Fidel to be Dead within 48 hours.

 

[wormyguy]

WW3 if WP pilot. NATO would be pissed. Conventional War is guaranteed. If Pilot is Cuban expect Fidel to be Dead within 48 hours.

Uhhh . . . no. US intelligence knew well that Warsaw Pact pilots were flying for the NVAF, and we did little about it. Capturing one or finding his dead body would most certainly provoke a major diplomatic incident, but would hardly provoke WWIII, which is not something that could have happened on the drop of a hat. If the pilot is Cuban expect several UN resolutions condemning Cuba and a bunch of other countries joining the US embargo.

 

[sloreck]

Gree, it would take more than one pilot to cause a major ruckus (as opposed to diplomatic nasty notes). We knew that Russian pilots were flying for the NKs in the Korean War, had it on tape.

 

[seraphim74]

Soviet Union /Warsaw Pact claims that the pilot was not a member of Soviet /WP armed forces, but a private person who volunteeered to help Vietnamese people repell imperalistic aggression. Everybody knows it a BS, but everybody is willing to let it go because nobody wants to escalate the conflict too much.

 

[DD951]

Soviet pilots flying for the Chinese during the Korean War was something of an open secret, but the US & UN powers didn't protest because the international incident that would have caused wasn't worth the hassle. For their part, the Soviet pilots, an elite unit of WW2 veterans with a high percentage of aces, were under orders not to bail out over UN-controlled territory, and not to let themselves be captured alive, and stated so in post-Cold War interviews. Presumably, any Warsaw Pact personnel serving with North Vietnamese units would have been under similar orders, and also, there'd be similar geopolitical considerations- even with proof, would being able to score a few diplomatic points by publicizing the involvement of Warsaw Pact personnel in the Vietnam War be worth the chance of ratcheting up the Cold War tensions up several levels?

 

[Riain]

The practicalities of it happening are what interests me. IIUC the NVAF flew mainly fighters in short range GCI roles against US air attacks in NthV airspace. They didn't attempt to contest airspace outside or even close to their borders, nor did they use attack aircraft in support of their army.

In that case the US would be staggeringly lucky to pick one up.