Victory at the Little Big Horn

In the early 1900s, Edward Sheriff Curtis, a famous photographer and amateur historian of the American West, interviewed some of the Native American survivors of the Battle of the Little Big Horn. Among those who were interviewed were some survivors from the Crow Scouts who rode with Lt. Colonel George Armstrong Custer on the fateful day of June 25, 1876. One of the more controversial bits of information these interviews brought to light was that Custer might actually have had a chance to win the battle, despite the great disparity of numbers.

As those familiar with the battle will recall, Custer had split his force, the Seventh Cavalry, into three separate commands. The first, commanded by himself, consisted of about 225 men. The second, composed of about 175 men, was commanded by Major Marcus Reno. The third, a small detachment left to guard the pack train, was commanded by Captain Frederick Benteen. Reno's command was ordered to attack the southern end of the large village of Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapaho Indians which the Seventh Cavalry had encountered, while Custer moved to the northern end of the village to launch his own attack.

However, Reno's attack quickly ran into trouble, as almost all of the over 2,000 warriors in the village quickly concentrated against him (at this time, the Indians were apparently unaware of Custer's separate column). Reno was forced into a defensive position, where he was soon joined by Captain Benteen and engaged in a fight for his life, and that of his command.

According to the account given to Curtis by the surviving Crow Scouts, as Reno's men were being forced back into said position, however, George Armstrong Custer was sitting on a hilltop, not far away, watching the action through his field glasses. His command was arrayed behind the hill, out of sight of the Indians. The hill was on the flank of the Indian position as they attacked Reno. The Crow scouts are said to have urged Custer to ride to Reno's aid and attack into the flank of the Sioux/Cheyenne/Arapaho host. Custer refused, saying, "No, let them fight. There will be plenty of fighting for us to do."

But what if, instead of riding off to his doom as in OTL, he had listened to the Crow Scouts and launched a charge into the flank of the Indian positions? Flank attacks tend to be disproportionately effective compared to the number of men engaged in them. The sudden impact and shock of a cavalry charge, riding downhill, into the flank of a surprised foe, could well have scattered the Indians and won the day, right then and there.

So lets say he does. The attack is a complete success, and the warriors are scattered. Custer chases them into the village itself, joined by Reno, and never lets them regroup. You end up with something like the Battle of the Washita, only on a much greater scale. Custer survives the battle, and is a national hero.

So where does he go from there? What part would he have played in the remainder of the 19th century? Presidential aspirations? Commander of the American Expeditionary Force in Cuba in 1898?
 
I don't know, Custer seemed too mercurial for political office . . .
then again, I am not as familiar with him as I am with other figures of the time. The Apache Wars are still being waged at this time, and Custer's presence might expedite their resolution (although his headstrong pertinacity might play to the Apache's tactics). Nelson Miles never gains the recognition he would have in OTL, so he never replaces Crook as the Commander of the US forces fighting the Apache, which means Custer is left a wonderful vaccuum to fill. As for commanding in the Spanish American War, I can't see how he'd be more aggressive than Wheeler, another ex-Civil War cavalry firebrand.
 
Ironically, Custer winning at LBH might generate sympathy for the native American tribes on the plains. There was already murmuring about some of the more notorious massacres; however, Custer's death at the LBH turned public opinion completely around. If Custer had won and gone into the village in his normal massacring mode, that might have been one straw too many for US public opinion...
 
Or the flankingattack simply could have failed and the entire regiment been wiped out instead of just Custers collum.
 
The Crow scouts were given permission to leave before the battle. None stayed with Custer save 2 that died with him, and none at all stayed or went with Reno.
 
The Crow scouts were given permission to leave before the battle. None stayed with Custer save 2 that died with him, and none at all stayed or went with Reno.

My guess is that they knew what the outcome would be and decided to live a bit longer
 
Absolutely. Also, any scene in a movie or painting that depicts The Souix and Cheyenne raging around Custers men on horseback whooping it up are most likely mistaken. There is no way all the Natives made it out of camp at the same time to take on the segmented regiment, and they just didn't fight that way. A warrior fought if he felt it was a good day to fight, meaning battle honours, or a good death. The Crow scouts knew from the way the troopers were acting and the signs they saw that today would not be a good day to die. Even scarier than the hordes of swirling swooping warrriors was the drawn out attack they suffered being picked off one by one until they probably startied shooting themselves. It was damn hot out there with no water and little chance of backup making it in time.
 
The Crow scouts were given permission to leave before the battle. None stayed with Custer save 2 that died with him, and none at all stayed or went with Reno.

My guess is that they knew what the outcome would be and decided to live a bit longer

Actually all were prepared to stay with Custer. Custer sent them away because they had put on their death paint and were unnerving his own troopers. And the incident I describe occurred before Custer sent them away.
 
Or the flankingattack simply could have failed and the entire regiment been wiped out instead of just Custers collum.

Possible too, of course. But the stated POD is that the attack succeeds. The Crow Scouts apparently thought it had a good chance of success, and they would have been more cognizant of the likely reaction of other Indians to a surprise flank attack than others would be.
 
Ironically, Custer winning at LBH might generate sympathy for the native American tribes on the plains. There was already murmuring about some of the more notorious massacres; however, Custer's death at the LBH turned public opinion completely around. If Custer had won and gone into the village in his normal massacring mode, that might have been one straw too many for US public opinion...

That's an interesting point. On the other hand, of course, Custer was good at twisting press coverage to his own advantage. And he could point to the fact that he was outnumbered by over 4 to one in warriors and 10 to one in total number of Indians versus soldiers to claim a great victory, with some "unfortunate collateral damage."
 
The Crow scouts were given permission to leave before the battle. None stayed with Custer save 2 that died with him, and none at all stayed or went with Reno.

Actually, the Crow stayed and fought with Reno and many of the Crow dismissed by Custer joined the Reno/Benteen force. During the fight, Reno had the Crow scout Bloody Knife's blood and brains splattered across his face, which did not help his performance.

I don't think the ground would have been well suited for a flank attack by Custer, since Reno retreated across the river and into the trees, neither of which would help the cohesion of a charge by Custer.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
So where does he go from there? What part would he have played in the remainder of the 19th century? Presidential aspirations? Commander of the American Expeditionary Force in Cuba in 1898?

He was definitely young enough to go to Cuba. I don't know if he could've been in Corps command (I thought the reason they went with Wheeler was because he was Confederate, and they wanted to tie up the country), but he definitely could've gone in regimental or brigade command.
 

DISSIDENT

Banned
Custer as president during World War One?

If there's anyone who could handle it worse than Wilson did, there's your man!
 
So where does he go from there? What part would he have played in the remainder of the 19th century? Presidential aspirations? Commander of the American Expeditionary Force in Cuba in 1898?

President? Probably not.
Vice President? Possibly, what better way to tie up the Republican ticket than with a war hero, ala McKinley/Roosevelt?

Commander in Cuba, maybe. Would he perhapse Replace Pershing?
 
There was a TV show on this battle..."Battlefield Detectives" IIRC that dealt with how Custers troops were positioned and where most of them were killed...really really interesting show if you can track it down. Would have seen it on the History Channel here in Canada.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
There was a TV show on this battle..."Battlefield Detectives" IIRC that dealt with how Custers troops were positioned and where most of them were killed...really really interesting show if you can track it down. Would have seen it on the History Channel here in Canada.

Have seen that same show on Jim in Finland.
 
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