Victory At Kinsale 1601

Kinsale: The Battle which ended the Nine Years War in favour of the English crown.
How do you see the future playing out if The O'Neill had convinced the other Irish Clans to dig in and await the starvation of the English army at Kinsale instead of attacking and losing?

The English army destroyed, the English presence in Ireland reduced to The Pale, and even this is under immediate threat.
The O'Neill crowned (High) King of Ireland, after the victory at Kinsale can convince more clans to join.
Even closer ties with Spain which bolsters forces already landed earlier at Kinsale.
The English crown removed from Ireland, with its eviction from The Pale.

What happens to Protestant England when a free Catholic Ireland emerges to its west? An Ireland which is a close ally of Spain?
 
What happens to Protestant England when a free Catholic Ireland emerges to its west? An Ireland which is a close ally of Spain?

I would suggest the likely result is England launching repeated attacks until control is restored. It's just too much of a threat at a time when the Popes are still calling for Elizabeth (and future English monarchs) to be dethroned and replaced with "rightful orthodox Catholics".

Ireland may be an ally to Spain, but the Spanish wouldn't see it as any more of an equal than England saw it. They would do one of two things - largely ignore it until it became militarily convenient to use it as a staging post for an invasion of England, or try to subsume it under the Spanish Crown. Both eventualities are likely to result in an eventual souring of relations when the Irish realise that they can't get the Spanish to recognise them as equals in power and they realise that even having achieved independence they are still just a pawn to the Spanish.
 
True, but alot depends on how O'Neill progresses with establishing his rule afterwards.
He is canny enough to make the most of all resources to hand, as well as wise enough not to blindly trust the Spanish.

A reinvasion of Ireland by England would be a difficult endeavour, in the face of a united front led by O'Neill (and O'Donnell), reinforced by Spainards and with no Pale as a launching pad to make things easier.

Best for O'Neill to negotiate a peace where neither English nor Spainish forces are in the country.

...plus build an army and navy backed up with fortifications as quickly as possible.
You never know when peace will break out between old enemies.
 
Hmmm...fair enough, though if Ireland continues to act as an adversary to England my money is on repeated attempts at reconquest.

My other thought would be - how long could O'Neill's rule last (or perhaps more likely how long after his death) before Ireland simply disintegrated back into the petty Kingdoms?
 
England drove itself to the brink of bankruptcy with this war. Unless it is willing to sharply raise taxes then it will be unable to mount another invasion. Ireland could well be spared another invasion until Cromwell takes over when it would be a given.
 
Hard to say if Cromwell (*******) would even have entered politics or even if he had, that he would have strict puritanical beliefs vis a vis anti Roman Catholicism.

How long would a united Ireland exist past The O'Neill's death? Hard to say.
Traditionally the High Kingship used to mostly stem from The O'Neills. So they have that going for them.
He has male offspring.
Ulster was long regarded the heart of gaelic Ireland. Arguably the strongest province at that time.

Again, it all depends on The O'Neill's actions post-victory. Queen Elizabeth from what I know actually liked O'Neill. A quick victory and a quicker peace may have been possible.

A free Ireland alters England's actions quite a bit into the future. May have been no British Empire - bulk of British soldiers were Irish...
 
How long would a united Ireland exist past The O'Neill's death? Hard to say.
Traditionally the High Kingship used to mostly stem from The O'Neills. So they have that going for them.
He has male offspring.
Ulster was long regarded the heart of gaelic Ireland. Arguably the strongest province at that time.

Historically the High Kingship was usually ignored by 2/3 of Ireland as and when it suited them, though...
 
Historically the High Kingship was usually ignored by 2/3 of Ireland as and when it suited them, though...

True but there are notable exceptions.

Brian Boru (even if he wasnt an Ulsterman), was a strong High King. I seriously doubt Hugh O'Neill would have been any less of a leader.

The subsequent Treaty of London would have been even less in Englands favour.
 
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