Victoria Dies in 1861

I am intrested in your thoughts on the the following Scenario:

Balmoral, the Summer of 1861. A fire destroys the castle, and the Royal Family in residence are killed, along with the Prime Minster (Palmeston) and many of the Royal Household.

Princess Victoria (the Queen's eldest child) is with her new husband (Prince Fredrick) in Prussia, when she learns that she is the new Queen of England.

Her husband will become Kaiser in 1888 (he dies 90 days later), so her son becomes Kaiser Wilhelm II, also in 1888.

What happens in 1901, when Queen Victoria II dies? Do the German and British Empires join? If so, would WWI happen?
 
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Are you sure you've managed to kill every son of Queen Victoria? That would be the real test...

I might look up their ages and locations in 1861... Of course, if it were Christmas there might be a better chance of them all being together

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Albert Edward was between being at Cambridge Uni and touring Germany in Sep of 1861 so could be at Balmoral perhaps

Alfred is going to be the problem - he's in the navy and may well be at sea

Arthur is 11 and Leopold 8 so being with their mother and father in the holidays is not unlikely

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Albert Edward was between being at Cambridge Uni and touring Germany in Sep of 1861 so could be at Balmoral perhaps

Alfred is going to be the problem - he's in the navy and may well be at sea

Arthur is 11 and Leopold 8 so being with their mother and father in the holidays is not unlikely

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

You are right, I had missed that!
Let's make it summer of 1858 instead. Alfred has just passed his midshipman exam, and is due for his first posting. Albert Edward is still being tutored at home, as are the others. His elder sister was married in January of that year, so the link to the German Imperial throne is still intact.

The one change would be the Lord Derby is PM, not Palmeston.
 
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You are right, I had missed that!
Let's make it summer of 1858 instead. Alfred has just passed his midshipman exam, and is due for his first posting. Albert Edward is still being tutored at home, as are the others. His elder sister was married in January of that year, so the link to the German Imperial throne is still intact.

True, but the slight problem here is that Wilhelm I is not King of Prussia yet meaning that Frederick is not Crown Prince. It becomes more POSSIBLE for him to say he wishes to be Prince Consort of Britain and will pass his rights over to the next Prussian in line - although this might really screw things up as it will become a bit convoluted for Prussia!

It would certainly make it easier for Victoria II to accept the crown of Great Britain - in 1861 she may have stepped aside for her next sister.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
True, but the slight problem here is that Wilhelm I is not King of Prussia yet meaning that Frederick is not Crown Prince. It becomes more POSSIBLE for him to say he wishes to be Prince Consort of Britain and will pass his rights over to the next Prussian in line - although this might really screw things up as it will become a bit convoluted for Prussia!

That would be William I's brother, Prince Charles of Prussia.
 
That would be William I's brother, Prince Charles of Prussia.

But Charles dies in 1883, so even if he was placed in the sucession he died before his brother.

Fredrick renounce in favour of his son Wilhelm (given his health at the time anyway), then we are left with the situation in 1901 and the death of Queen Victoria II. Who would inherit the British throne, Wilhelm or his brother Henry?

Either way WWI will see Britain and Germany closely linked if it occurs at all.
 
How many monarchies did you just vanish?

:)
Let's see....

All of the British kings and queen from Victoria, then the Russian royal family will need a couple of new queens, ditto the Norwegian, Romanian and Spanish.

The several of the Duchies in Germany and ......

Dont you just love butterflies.
 
Are you sure you've managed to kill every son of Queen Victoria? That would be the real test...

I might look up their ages and locations in 1861... Of course, if it were Christmas there might be a better chance of them all being together

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Like in the fluff piece that I wrote for the Christmas edition, only this time the Christmas tree crushes the 13 year old Victoria. ;)
 
Victoria dies in 1858

What do you think of this?

On August 25th 1858 a fire at Balmoral Castle kills Queen Victoria, her husband and most of their children whilst on holiday. Also dead is the Prime Minister Lord Derby and many of the Royal Household.

The only surviving child of Queen Victoria is Princess Victoria, the Queen’s eldest daughter whom had married Prince Fredrick of Prussia earlier that year (25th Jan). The Princess now becomes Queen Victoria II, and her husband Prince Consort Fredrick.

By 1871 Prussia had formed the German Empire, with Fredrick’s father as the first Emperor Wilhelm I. Bismarck, the German chancellor dislikes the liberal politics of Fredrick, and tries to get him removed from the line of succession, favouring Wilhelm’s brother Charles. However Charles dies in 1883 and Fredrick is re-instated as Crown Prince.

1888 and the Year of Three Emperors, Prince Fredrick follows his father to the throne of the German empire. He is very ill with cancer, and dies 90 days later, at which time his son, Wilhelm, becomes Emperor of Germany. In 1901, at the death of his mother, he is crowned King of Great Britain and Emperor of India.

A new state is formed, the Anglo-German Commonwealth, with Wilhelm as the Emperor, and a new capital city is built in Bremen. Here the Commonwealth Parliament sits, as well as housing the Imperial Palace.

I am intrested in your thoughts about French and American re-actions in particular.
 
ASB. This is too late for dynastic politics to unite two great powers, speaking a different language, into one polity.

I don't even think you can have the same figure be royalty for both. At most you get possibly warmer relations because one monarch is literally brother to his brother monarch, something like that.
 
What do you think of this?

On August 25th 1858 a fire at Balmoral Castle kills Queen Victoria, her husband and most of their children whilst on holiday. Also dead is the Prime Minister Lord Derby and many of the Royal Household.

The only surviving child of Queen Victoria is Princess Victoria, the Queen’s eldest daughter whom had married Prince Fredrick of Prussia earlier that year (25th Jan). The Princess now becomes Queen Victoria II, and her husband Prince Consort Fredrick.

By 1871 Prussia had formed the German Empire, with Fredrick’s father as the first Emperor Wilhelm I. Bismarck, the German chancellor dislikes the liberal politics of Fredrick, and tries to get him removed from the line of succession, favouring Wilhelm’s brother Charles. However Charles dies in 1883 and Fredrick is re-instated as Crown Prince.

1888 and the Year of Three Emperors, Prince Fredrick follows his father to the throne of the German empire. He is very ill with cancer, and dies 90 days later, at which time his son, Wilhelm, becomes Emperor of Germany. In 1901, at the death of his mother, he is crowned King of Great Britain and Emperor of India.

A new state is formed, the Anglo-German Commonwealth, with Wilhelm as the Emperor, and a new capital city is built in Bremen. Here the Commonwealth Parliament sits, as well as housing the Imperial Palace.

I am intrested in your thoughts about French and American re-actions in particular.

Well, it might go that way

But I'd be more inclined to think butterflies would start playing their games by the early 1860s at the latest

This would especially be so if Frederick does NOT renounce his claims to the German succession, as everyone will be thinking that British-Prussian policy is going to be united pretty soon - since nobody expects Wilhelm I to live to a huge age, and his older brother just went nuts then died. Wilhelm was always afraid he would go the same way too

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Well, it might go that way

But I'd be more inclined to think butterflies would start playing their games by the early 1860s at the latest

This would especially be so if Frederick does NOT renounce his claims to the German succession, as everyone will be thinking that British-Prussian policy is going to be united pretty soon - since nobody expects Wilhelm I to live to a huge age, and his older brother just went nuts then died. Wilhelm was always afraid he would go the same way too

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Ok, Fredrick renounces his claim and Charles is made Crown Prince. In 1883 with the death of Charles the younger son of Victoria and Fredrick is offered the Crown Princeship (Prince Henry), and we keep the two Empires apart.

We are still left with no British links to Russia nor any Entente Cordial between France and Britain. This to me means that the British Empire remains neutral in WWI, always assuming that the brighter and less beligerant Prince Henry draws Germany into the conflict.
 
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