Vichy 1941 expedition to New Caledonia

I was reading Vichy sous les tropiques, La Révolution nationale à Madagascar, en Guadeloupe, en Indochine, 1940-1944, and there was apparently a proposal by Vichy to send military forces from French Indochina to retake New Caledonia in February 1941;

"Fait incroyable, en février 1941, un haut gradé de la marine à Hanoi esquissa un projet d’expédition pour reprendre la Nouvelle-Calédonie des << griffes >> de la France libre 635. L’aventure n’allait être définitivement rejectée qu’en janvier 1942 636. Si le ministère des Colonies finit par trouver l’idée trop risquée…"

If Vichy had pressed ahead with this, what would have been the results, diplomatically and militarily? In military forces they had 1 light cruiser, and 4 avisos in Indochina, who had recently beaten the Thai naval forces there, no clue what the Free French hold and what ground forces on both sides might be.
 
I was reading Vichy sous les tropiques, La Révolution nationale à Madagascar, en Guadeloupe, en Indochine, 1940-1944, and there was apparently a proposal by Vichy to send military forces from French Indochina to retake New Caledonia in February 1941;

"Fait incroyable, en février 1941, un haut gradé de la marine à Hanoi esquissa un projet d’expédition pour reprendre la Nouvelle-Calédonie des << griffes >> de la France libre 635. L’aventure n’allait être définitivement rejectée qu’en janvier 1942 636. Si le ministère des Colonies finit par trouver l’idée trop risquée…"

If Vichy had pressed ahead with this, what would have been the results, diplomatically and militarily? In military forces they had 1 light cruiser, and 4 avisos in Indochina, who had recently beaten the Thai naval forces there, no clue what the Free French hold and what ground forces on both sides might be.
Feb-April-ish 1941? Australia has Hobart, Adelaide, Swan and Warrego in home waters, with Canberra, Australia and Sydney operating in the Indian Ocean, so available at relatively short notice. The New Zealand Division of the RN has Achilles available in the Pacific. That's putting aside anything the poms have operating out of Singapore...

Minimum three light cruisers and two sloops (with possible addition of two heavy cruisers and a light cruiser) vs maximum one light cruiser and four avisos? I put very good odds on the expedition coming to a rather bloody end before they make it to New Caledonia...

Edit: And if they do make it ashore and retaking the islands becomes necessary Australia has two thirds of the 8th Division AIF at home until August 1941... plus with a few slight amendments to certain laws Aus can call on the several divisions worth of CMF troops used for home defense.
 
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Feb-April-ish 1941? Australia has Hobart, Adelaide, Swan and Warrego in home waters, with Canberra, Australia and Sydney operating in the Indian Ocean, so available at relatively short notice. The New Zealand Division of the RN has Achilles available in the Pacific. That's putting aside anything the poms have operating out of Singapore...

Minimum three light cruisers and two sloops (with possible addition of two heavy cruisers and a light cruiser) vs maximum one light cruiser and four avisos? I put very good odds on the expedition coming to a rather bloody end before they make it to New Caledonia...

Edit: And if they do make it ashore and retaking the islands becomes necessary Australia has two thirds of the 8th Division AIF at home until August 1941... plus with a few slight amendments to certain laws Aus can call on the several divisions worth of CMF troops used for home defense.
But the question is whether Australia would intervene - the risk of Vichy intervention on the German side at this point could still be extremely damaging if hostilities continued to escalate, given the Vichy naval fleet size, and evidently the French admiral must have thought that there was a reason why the British wouldn't intervene or else he wouldn't have even proposed the operation.
 
there was apparently a proposal by Vichy to send military forces from French Indochina to retake New Caledonia in February 1941
How far is it to sail to New Caledonia if you cant use the Suez or Panama canals? O and you cant buy fuel from GB controlled ports as well.....sorry we are just to busy with the war to spare any nothing against you at all.
 
How far is it to sail to New Caledonia if you cant use the Suez or Panama canals? O and you cant buy fuel from GB controlled ports as well.....sorry we are just to busy with the war to spare any nothing against you at all.

This is a Pacific campaign. As per the OP the French are using assets in French Indo China.
 
How far is it to sail to New Caledonia if you cant use the Suez or Panama canals? O and you cant buy fuel from GB controlled ports as well.....sorry we are just to busy with the war to spare any nothing against you at all.
Well they are only talking about using assets in FIC. I wonder if Japan would have avoided interfering with French Indochina in hopes that Vich France attacking Free French territory could bring Britain in leading to the Vich Navy Sailing in the Mediterranean against the Royal Navy.
 
How far is it to sail to New Caledonia if you cant use the Suez or Panama canals? O and you cant buy fuel from GB controlled ports as well.....sorry we are just to busy with the war to spare any nothing against you at all.
Are you suggesting that sailing from French Indochina to New Caledonia, which are both within the Western Pacific, would somehow require the usage of the Suez or Panama canals? You did quote my post stating that these were from FIC after all...
Perhaps my geography understanding is dangerously flawed, but I'm not quite sure how going in between two places in the Pacific would require traversing the Atlantic or Indian oceans respectively...
 
But the question is whether Australia would intervene - the risk of Vichy intervention on the German side at this point could still be extremely damaging if hostilities continued to escalate, given the Vichy naval fleet size, and evidently the French admiral must have thought that there was a reason why the British wouldn't intervene or else he wouldn't have even proposed the operation.
The British certainly were not adverse to attacking the Vichy French elsewhere during the proposed time period (see the British attack on the Vichy fleet, attempted coup de main against French North Africa and later the invasion of Syria). So I don't see anything that would stop 'em intervening if push came to shove. And there's always the option (if they get enough warning) of preempting the French move... drop a brigade in New Caledonia and then the Vichy French have the problem of deciding if they attack (plus forces involved probably puts it beyond the practical sea lift capability of the French).
How far is it to sail to New Caledonia if you cant use the Suez or Panama canals? O and you cant buy fuel from GB controlled ports as well.....sorry we are just to busy with the war to spare any nothing against you at all.
French Indochina to New Caledonia, as the crow flies? 7000 km. If you take the closest sea route to the great-circle doesn't add much more, but that send you through the Torres Strait! Have fun dodging fire from the various coast defense batteries up there. Going round the north of PNG adds about 1000 km.

Actually need to check the range on that cruiser and the avisos... but it's starting to look like it'd be a decidedly one way trip without factoring in the RAN the NZDiv, RN.

Edit: Duguay-Trouin-class cruiser... 5600 km range at 15 knots. Bougainville-class aviso... 17000 km at 14 knots.

In short, they're limited to bringing 'sloops' to a cruiser fight...
 
The British certainly were not adverse to attacking the Vichy French elsewhere during the proposed time period (see the British attack on the Vichy fleet, attempted coup de main against French North Africa and later the invasion of Syria). So I don't see anything that would stop 'em intervening if push came to shove. And there's always the option (if they get enough warning) of preempting the French move... drop a brigade in New Caledonia and then the Vichy French have the problem of deciding if they attack (plus forces involved probably puts it beyond the practical sea lift capability of the French).
French Indochina to New Caledonia, as the crow flies? 7000 km. If you take the closest sea route to the great-circle doesn't add much more, but that send you through the Torres Strait! Have fun dodging fire from th various coast defense batteries up there. Going round the north of PNG adds about 1000 km.

Actually need to check the range on that cruiser and the avisos... but it's starting to look like it'd be a decidedly one way trip without factoring in the RAN the NZDiv, RN.

The problem of pre-empting them does raise that if the Vichy operation was conducted largely on local initiative and fast enough it might be able to reach the islands before Allied response occurs. At that point the operation might be able to be presented as a fait accompli and raises the diplomatic cost of a counter-response. Still, certainly if the British do decide to intervene then the French naval forces are poorly positioned to resist, but I can't help but think that the French colonial ministry wouldn't have considered the option for a whole year if they didn't think there was a possibility that the British wouldn't intervene for some reason.

French Bouganville-class avisos had 17,000 kilometers of range at 14 knots, while the Amiens had 6,000 kilometers at 11 knots, and Lamotte-Picquet had 6,000 kilometers at 15 knots. The Amiens might have to be left at home, but the other ships should have the capacity to make the voyage, presuming that speed is limited to conserve fuel. Japanese refueling in their possessions would cut down the distance quite a lot, and enable them to operate at much higher speed; to Palau is only around 2,500 kilometers, and from Truk to New Caledonia is 3,500 kilometers. Of course that would require Japanese assent...
 
Two other possibilities. Are the French secretly trying to get the ships OUT of Fr. Indochina to keep them away from the Japanese? If not, what is to keep the Japanese from saying "Oh we will be happy to help you retake your colony" and sending part of the IJN and landing forces along? That would force the Allies to react.
 
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