Viable alternate North American nations

How about a really early PoD at the beginning of the Tokugawa Shogunate? Angered by attempts by the Spanish and Portuguese to subvert Japanese society, instead of withdrawing and allowing only the Dutch on Deshima to trade (as in OTL), Ieyasu Tokugawa gets together with the Dutch (and maybe British) to intervene in Oregon/California to build a colony that could eventually destroy the Spanish presence in the Americas. This might eventually lead to a separate nation with a higher population base on the West Coast. It would be mainly Japanese in character, but somewhat different than OTL Japan because of the Dutch (and British?) influence.

Er... why? Spain didn't exactly have a huge presence in California to disrupt, and any invigorated Asian country would be much better off setting its own house in order. There was little reason for China, which had a much better naval fleet for a period, to actually settle the west coast when there were things to do and places to go closer to home. This would be even more so for Japan.

Historically, few, if any, distant areas were settled/colonized for the express purpose of living there. Spain colonized the Americas for their gold and wealth, British colonies settled in America initially as corporate ventures, and so on.
 
Using a POD of 1787 instead of 1836, we can reasonably assume that the United States could have been stopped at the Mississippi had Napoleon been unwilling to sell Louisiana in 1803. With Spain remaining a "stong" presence in North America until the end of the 19th century, Spanish Florida could have remained a Spanish possession well after 1819. Without the addition of the Louisiana territory, the United States probably would not have made a claim to Oregon, allowing it to remain a British possession. Texas could possibly have become an independent nation if the same original Anglo settlers arrived as had in the 1830's. With the discovery of gold in California, Americans, Louisianans, Spaniards, and the British would all have flocked across the continent for the gold rush. The mixture of nationalities in California would conflict, but the Bear Republic of California could have become an independent nation during the 1850's. The Confederacy might not have formed in 1861, however, due to the lack of turmoil in the states and territories west of the Mississippi River - no Missouri Compromise or Bloody Kansas. However, the Mormons in Illinois would still have been ostracized, and ended up in Utah as they did in OTL. The nation of Deseret would most likely have been allowed to exist by the Mexican authorities, since the Mexicans had settled the area very sparsely. With the defeat of Napoleon in Europe, he could have fled to Louisiana in 1815 and established himself as the Emperor of Louisiana, rather than been exiled to Elba. If this were the case, and his nephew became Emperor later on as in OTL, the merging of the two Empires would have been possible. The installation of a French puppet as the Emperor of Mexico would have led to the formation of a large French Empire stretching from the Canadian border down to Central America, dotted with a few smaller republics such as Texas, California, and Deseret. Of course, without an United States stretching from sea to sea, Seward would not have purchased Alaska, resulting in the presence of a Russian Alaska as well.

Therefore, by 1870, North America will have a varied landscape of political entities:

United States of America - from Maine south along the coast to Georgia and inland to the Mississippi River.

Empire of France and Mexico - from the Gulf of Mexico to the Canadian border, west to Deseret, Oregon, and California, south to include Mexico.

Republic of Texas - occupying the state of Texas.

Republic of Deseret - occupying the state of Utah.

Bear Republic of California - occupying the state of California.

British Canada - all of Canada, including Washington and Oregon.

Spanish Florida - occupying the state of Florida.

Russian Alaska - occupying the state of Alaska.
 
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Sorry for the old post. I hope that this doesnt cause too much trouble.

What about seeing the Republic of New Afrika, Republic of Lakotah, Republic of Maine, New England Confederation Alliance, Vinland, Republic of Cascadia, Aztlán or Vermont?
 
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There was a Republic of West Florida which could be left alone and finagle themselves the rest of the state, or have the Spanish send more people down there. It'd be poor, but still could be independent.

Then if we have a CSA civil war victory I can see the midwest breaking off. Lincoln spent a lot of effort trying to dissuade that sort of thinking and if the union loses, what's to stop them then? That could even be a reasonably decent country, what with access to the great lakes, and sitting across a very nice trade route. Of course if they were to go, then the entire west would have to as well (Independent Cascadia, California, etc.)

Increased attention by the Scandinavians and Dutch to the New World could have led to Republics of the Delaware and of the Hudson. Having the Scots ignore that nice but not well thought out venture into Central America and focus more on Nova Scotia could help found a nation there too (Butterflying away the Union since Scotland wouldn't have gone bankrupt at that time with this divergence).

Or the election of a Prohibitionist President leads to increased checkpoints between the states. Then, suddenly, when the Spanish Influenza breaks out even worse than before the states start using these checkpoints to barricade themselves off from their neighbors. People start avoiding crowds like the plague (literally) so during the 1928 election voter turnout has plummeted and an unpopular president sneaks into office. Then the great depression hits! Suddenly secessionists! Thousands of them!
 
So far I see plausable nations of:

California, Mexico, USA, Cascadia, Texas, Canada, Quebec, Alaska, Deseret (and aside from Cuba, no one's mentioned the Carribean island nations).
 
For a Canadian perspective:

BC (that's Mainland + Island colonies, together): Neither were truly viable separately. Or rather, the Island colony couldn't support itself, but it had the elites in the area. BC joining Confederation was a bit of a fluke, and hard bargaining was done.

Upper Canada (aka Ontario): This existed before 1763. Good land, separate culture from Americans, existing infrastructure.

Lower Canada: Same reasons as Upper Canada.

Maritime Union/Acadia/NS+NB+PEI: Again, different culture, economy, and settlement than the colonies to the west. Throw in Newfoundland as well. It wasn't truly viable.

The land between the Canadian Shield and the Rockies is pretty vague. Like the American plains, it wasn't really settled, and until 1867-ish, it was owned by the Hudson's Bay Company. I see all of Rupert's Land either getting divided amongst other nations, or becoming an independent entity, or getting annexed from the south.

Whoever controls Alaska may decide to head east to control the Yukon/NWT/Nunavut.
 
I think California would make a cool superpower in some timelines.

Wow, you really dug deep to revive this. I was on page 3 before I started thinking that some of this sounded familiar.

Anybody remember "How the West was Weird"; a timeline starting with a Santa Anna victory and leading to an independent California and Deseret.
One of the first complete TLs I read (along with "Empty America").

I've tried to find it but there's so much "Weird West" stuff out there- Vampires in Ol' Laredo, zombies in Tombstone- that I haven't been able to.
 
My own effort in this field involved a string of British colonies down the West Coast uniting in a Canada-style confederation (New Albion).

The POD was an earlier establishment of the sea otter trade with China by the British (1740s) instead of the Russians, leading to clashes with the Russians and Spanish, establishment of trading posts/forts from Alaska to California, and Britain claiming the whole coast

This leads to the rebels successfully taking Quebec in 1775 (it involves Robert Rogers, of Roger's Rangers fame, and still comes from the same POD) and Nova Scotia, followed by an emigration of United Empire Loyalists to the west coast (by sea).

The US (now all of eastern NA) eventually faced with an British/Mexican alliance, settles for a border at the Continental Divide from the Yukon on down, with Mexico keeping southern California, Arizona and New Mexico plus more of Texas.
 
Why is the Republic of the Rio Grande suddenly so popular? That thing didn't last a year before it was destroyed by its own people.
 
What about ARW or AWI as on TL, then Louisiana not sold, 1812 goes pear shaped and New England leaves the USA and Indiana stays Five Tribes State.

So 1813 we have UK Canada with added Maine (well bits), Spanish empire in larger Mexico, a rump USA but with some potential for growth post 1815, 5Tribes state, a weak Louisiana, New England Federation, so next stage would be some uprisings in the 1820s-1850s with a new Texas Republic, later a Bear Republic or Dominion in California, then maybe followed by an ACW between the non slaving North and the slaver States, probably ending up with a Northern USAF and a South USA (but since it's the North that splits we'll have it as the CSA and South as the USA just to upset y'all)

So now in 2014 the nations of North America are, Canada (ex UK Dominion), California(poss ex UK Dominion more likely Republic) New England, the USA, the CSA, Mexico, Indiana, Louisiana, Oregon (ex Dominion), Alaska (controlled from Moscow or maybe sold to California?) oh and go on then Deseret too.
Feel free to chuck in a few more if anyone fancies, after all it's huge (maybe an Indiana 2 for the Sioux and Cherokee etc?)

Just my alt 2p worth
 
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