Vespasians bastard son

[StevenIronside]

We all know of Titus Flavius Vespasianus Major, Emperor Vespasian. Vespasians life was quite an interesting one, involving what was a forbidden love between him and a freedwoman of Antonia wife of Drusus.

He and Caenis had met when Vespasian was beginning his career and are known to have had a relationship. However relationships between freedwomen and senators was forbidden and any offspring would carry the status of the their freednparent.

What i am wondering is if they had had a son how would he have been involved. Say this son would be called Titus Flavius Antonianus or Caenianus what would his life been like and what would be Vespasians repsonse would he adopt this son? Would this son be a potential claimant of the throne? Especially since his mother became Empress in everything but name later on in life.

 

[Sertorius126]

It’s not that relationships between senators and freedwomen were forbidden, they happened more often than not, as long as the two didn’t marry, everything was fine.

Adopting, or even declare legitimate, the offspring of such a union was also not illegal, technically, but it would have been heavily frowned upon by everybody, so it’s improbable Vespasianus would ever consider adopting his bastard son.

His future would mostly depend on when he would be born. If he’s born before Vespasianus’ marriage to Domitilla, he could reasonably expect, like Nymphidius Sabinus, the alleged bastard son of Caligula, a fruitful career among the equestrian ranks. If he’s born once Domitilla dies, he’d probably be reduced to a non entity by the hostility of his elder brother Domitianus, who positively loathed Caenis, before even beginning his career. Claims to the throne are out of the question, and once Domitianus becomes emperor, regardless of the son’s age, he’d be either executed or spend the rest of his life in relative obscurity.

 

[StevenIronside]

It’s not that relationships between senators and freedwomen were forbidden, they happened more often than not, as long as the two didn’t marry, everything was fine.

Adopting, or even declare legitimate, the offspring of such a union was also not illegal, technically, but it would have been heavily frowned upon by everybody, so it’s improbable Vespasianus would ever consider adopting his bastard son.

His future would mostly depend on when he would be born. If he’s born before Vespasianus’ marriage to Domitilla, he could reasonably expect, like Nymphidius Sabinus, the alleged bastard son of Caligula, a fruitful career among the equestrian ranks. If he’s born once Domitilla dies, he’d probably be reduced to a non entity by the hostility of his elder brother Domitianus, who positively loathed Caenis, before even beginning his career. Claims to the throne are out of the question, and once Domitianus becomes emperor, regardless of the son’s age, he’d be either executed or spend the rest of his life in relative obscurity.

I would say his mostly likely be born before his mariage to Domitilla. I also thought he alao have the name Marcus Antonius Vespasianus. 3 possible names.

So if hes born before his marriage and Titus and his other kids are born theres a possibility that maybe he could keep him away from his other children allowimg him to live a fruitful life as an equestrian while his legitimate sons becomes emperors. I do agree as Domitian hated Caenis that if this son was ever discovered hed most likely have him executed immediately. Was why i was wondering if perhaps Vespasianus would be able to adopt such a son. Which by your words he could giving the boy all the privileges lf his fathers rank

 

[StevenIronside]

So heres my next question. If this man is adopted by Vespasian or isnt but is known to be his bastard son. Would his son be able to be Emperor? I would imagine he could.

 

[Sertorius126]

So heres my next question. If this man is adopted by Vespasian or isnt but is known to be his bastard son. Would his son be able to be Emperor? I would imagine he could.

He could try, but it wasn’t yet time for equestrians to become emperors, especially if they’re not connected to the most influential senatorial families. He’d be shot down just as fast as Nymphidius was.

 

[StevenIronside]

He could try, but it wasn’t yet time for equestrians to become emperors, especially if they’re not connected to the most influential senatorial families. He’d be shot down just as fast as Nymphidius was.

Roman classes were movable. During Caenis time as "Empress" she was able to become extremely rich all of which would be inherited by her son. Allowing his son to become a senator. Of course it wouldnt be that easy but being born an eqestrian he would be able to move up fairly easily having to be able to meet senatorial wealth as well as move up the cursus honorium.

 

[StevenIronside]

Just look at Vespasian himself who was a new man himself. His grandfather died after recieving his eqestrian rights basically Vespasians father Sabinus was the first equestrian of the family and his sons the first senators of the family

 

[Sertorius126]

Roman classes were movable. During Caenis time as "Empress" she was able to become extremely rich all of which would be inherited by her son. Allowing his son to become a senator. Of course it wouldnt be that easy but being born an eqestrian he would be able to move up fairly easily having to be able to meet senatorial wealth as well as move up the cursus honorium.

Absolutely, but the thing is, the bastard son of Vespasianus and his mistress would have no support from any of the senators, especially in the aftermath of Domitianus’ murder, when they’d rather rely upon one of their own, namely, Nerva.

 

[StevenIronside]

Absolutely, but the thing is, the bastard son of Vespasianus and his mistress would have no support from any of the senators, especially in the aftermath of Domitianus’ murder, when they’d rather rely upon one of their own, namely, Nerva.

That is very true.
However one cannot deny that the son and grandson would be quite an interesting story.

Especially if per say, Titus who was not against Caenis like his brother was to adopt or name one of them his hier instead of Domtianus. This i would see as leading to a coup or attempted coup. History could be much different

 

[Arcavia]

Remember that we're still in an era where ability still matters, though perhaps less so than birth/adoption. If this hypothetical son is erudite, likable, and politically skilled his career would look much different than if he was a good or an idiot.

 

[StevenIronside]

Its very possible even if Vespasian becomes emperor same as he did otl that differences would ensue. Perhaps he doesnt marry Domitilla. Perhaps this boy is adopted at a young age by his uncle Gaius Vespasius Pollus who had no known children. Perhaps becoming Gaius Vespasius Antonianus or Gaius Vespasius Flavianus. There are many veribles. Though i do think Vespasian would still become Emperor.