Ventis Ferrum: Dupleix's Success and Beyond
- Thread starter Drex
- Start date
Well F for the united states, strangled in the crib not long after their birth, at least it may open the path to Quebec or Louisiana to fill in the vacuum?
Chapter 12: A House Divided Against Itself
~ Chapter 12: A House Divided Against Itself ~
The Philadelphia Convention was doomed from the start. The convention had called for delegates of all the 14 colonies, but the representatives of Nova Scotia, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Georgia, Maryland and North Carolina were absent by the time the Convention opened [1]. There were two main topics of discussion, the Potomac dispute and the Vermont Uprising. The first question was quickly shoveled until a Marylander delegation arrived, while the issue over Vermont was reaching boiling point already as more New Hampshire men were selling guns to Vermont, officially selling them to New York (the US government couldn’t regulate trade between the states, so nothing could be done in that case). The New Yorker delegation quickly states that Vermont was part of New York and it had been agreed to be in 1782 when Vermont was subjugated by the Continental Army. The states of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware supported New York’s claim, and that the rebels were threatening the integrity of the states. The New Hampshire delegation only obtained support from Connecticut, while Massachusetts and Virginia were neutral on the issue. Connecticut’s support came from their previous disputes with New York and the access to their Western Reserve across the states of New York and Pennsylvania [2].
The Congress of the Confederation could not enforce anything upon New Hampshire or New York, nor dictate the ownership of the land, and the arguments heated up as the futility of the Convention was proven. Secretly, the New Hampshire and Connecticut delegations signed an alliance (an act forbidden by Article 6 of the AoC). During the sessions news arrived (along with the delegations of Nova Scotia and North Carolina) that militias from New York and New Hampshire had exchanged fire in a skirmish in Vermont, an act that the New York delegation stated as “an invasion of the sovereignty of New York that must be responded”. The New Hampshire delegation abandoned the meeting on March 7, and two days later the New Hampshire House of Representatives voted to leave the Union. The first domino had fallen.
A farm scene in the winter of 1786-1787, not easy times in America
As soon as New Hampshire declared independence it recognised the Republic of Vermont. New York responded by declaring that a state of war existed with New Hampshire over the Vermont dispute. New York pressed the Congress of the Confederation to declare war on New Hampshire for invading New Yorker territory, but Connecticut vetoed the decision. As both sides were amassing troops, a mob led by William West stormed Providence and declared the independence of Rhode Island. Rhode Island’s declaration of independence was followed by the secession of Connecticut, also revealing their alliance with New Hampshire, to which New York responded by declaring war on them. As April started, all delegates had left Philadelphia except for those of Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey and New York. The nation was falling apart.
On April 4 1787 the Virginia House of Representatives declared Virginia to be independent from the United States, citing the failures of the Congress of the Confederation to fulfill even its most basic role of preventing a war from breaking out between the states and stating that the grand experiment of American unification had been a failure. Maryland had declared independence three days before, while South Carolina would also secede on April 7. North Carolina was initially reluctant to secede, and after a second round of voting declared independence on April 26, and by that moment Georgia had also seceded. The delegations of Nova Scotia and Massachusetts had reached an agreement and both declared independence on April 21, calling for a new convention of the states in Boston that would amend the mess the Union had dissolved into. Seeing this new government as an opportunity, New Hampshire and Connecticut quickly adhered to the Boston Convention. By May 1787, the United States only consisted of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware, and also the Northwestern territories.
On April 4 1787 the Virginia House of Representatives declared Virginia to be independent from the United States, citing the failures of the Congress of the Confederation to fulfill even its most basic role of preventing a war from breaking out between the states and stating that the grand experiment of American unification had been a failure. Maryland had declared independence three days before, while South Carolina would also secede on April 7. North Carolina was initially reluctant to secede, and after a second round of voting declared independence on April 26, and by that moment Georgia had also seceded. The delegations of Nova Scotia and Massachusetts had reached an agreement and both declared independence on April 21, calling for a new convention of the states in Boston that would amend the mess the Union had dissolved into. Seeing this new government as an opportunity, New Hampshire and Connecticut quickly adhered to the Boston Convention. By May 1787, the United States only consisted of New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware, and also the Northwestern territories.
De iure situation in North America as of May 1787
The territories that were legally owned by the Congress of the Confederation now fell under the suzerainty of the remaining states of the Union, but any Congress authority collapsed in the Northwest. Virginia jumped at the opportunity and laid claim over the Northwestern territories, with Virginian militias amassing south of the Ohio River. At the same time, the crisis over the Potomac became all of a sudden an international incident. With both nations out of the Union, Maryland offered a peace settlement that would place the border on the center of the river, desperate to avoid going to war with Virginia, to which Richmond agreed, now more interested in the Northwest. As the power vacuum was more and more evident, British soldiers garrisoning the forts [3] took control of the situation and collaborated with the native Northwestern Confederacy to secure the area, except for Ohio which was de facto a sovereign state, with the colonists securing the area south and west of the Maumee River. The territory of Ohio would later send an envoy to Philadelphia requesting its adhesion to the political entity that would arise from the ashes of the Union, and the chaotic political situation would not be solved until decades after.
For the seceded states, their own states' constitutions became the law of the land, except for Rhode Island which was still governed by the 1663 Royal Charter as it had no constitution [4]. The states assumed the debt they owned, but relinquished any debt that was linked to the Congress of the Confederation, thus turning the states of Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and New York into the only ones that would have to support the debt the US government had contracted during the Revolutionary War and the years after, an amount which the states would not be able to pay under normal circumstances. The new seceded states in the south began to compete with each other to gain leverage on the trade balance with the European powers, with plantations of tobacco, cotton and sugarcane (where the climate allowed it) dotting the land, importing more slaves in order to reduce the price of their products and outcompete their neighbours.
For the seceded states, their own states' constitutions became the law of the land, except for Rhode Island which was still governed by the 1663 Royal Charter as it had no constitution [4]. The states assumed the debt they owned, but relinquished any debt that was linked to the Congress of the Confederation, thus turning the states of Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and New York into the only ones that would have to support the debt the US government had contracted during the Revolutionary War and the years after, an amount which the states would not be able to pay under normal circumstances. The new seceded states in the south began to compete with each other to gain leverage on the trade balance with the European powers, with plantations of tobacco, cotton and sugarcane (where the climate allowed it) dotting the land, importing more slaves in order to reduce the price of their products and outcompete their neighbours.
A tobacco plantation employing slave labour in the south of the former United States
Back north, the “War between the states” was actually pretty short, as both sides’ economies were struggling, specially as a good amount of trade was shut down when the Confederation collapsed, and the states could not risk mobilising their militias to the battle for much, least a new Newburgh Conspiracy would forge and topple their governments. The war was limited to skirmishes, as New Hampshire militias aided the Vermonters at securing their territory and expelling the New Yorkers from Vermont by attacking before New York militias had recovered from the winter. Across the Hudson there were clashes between New York and Connecticut militias, with the most notable of the military actions being the Battle of Ridgefield, in which the New Yorkers employed artillery with great effect, decimating the Connecticut militia [5]. Pennsylvania and New Jersey pressured New York to sign peace before a wider war dragged all of them down, as trade had been stopped with both sides converting merchant vessels into war vessels the same way it was done back in the Revolution.
The conflict dwindled down after Ridgefield, and a truce was signed in September with Connecticut’s western reserve in the limbo, being unoccupied by New York forces but having no way to keep contact with Connecticut. The states of Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey and New York recognised the secession of Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Nova Scotia, and all of them (except New York) would recognise the Republic of Vermont as a sovereign entity. Vermont would send a delegation to the Boston Convention and be recognised as a member of the recently formed Commonwealth of New England. Rhode Island would also join the Commonwealth in 1794 after their brief attempt at independence ruined the elite of the country and they requested joining the Commonwealth to prevent a popular uprising from toppling their regime. The remaining US States called for a new Congress that would decide the fate of the remnants of the Union. The Articles of Confederation were discarded as the law of the land in 1789, and replaced by a new constitutional text, resulting in the creation of the Union of Atlantic States, to which a delegation from Ohio quickly swore loyalty, causing a minor crisis with Virginia.
For Europe, the collapse of the United States was something that many had already predicted and it was a boon for conservative thinkers, yet their successful revolution against British forces and the fact that the post-US states (Columbian Nations eventually became the term to refer to them [6]) had proven that a liberal rebellion against the ancient regimen was possible, inspiring many groups such as the Dutch “Patriotten” that took control of most of the Netherlands before the Prussian army invaded in September 1787 and crushed their regime. However, in no place was the impact of the American Revolution more permanent than in France, which was about to have a revolution of its own.
The conflict dwindled down after Ridgefield, and a truce was signed in September with Connecticut’s western reserve in the limbo, being unoccupied by New York forces but having no way to keep contact with Connecticut. The states of Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey and New York recognised the secession of Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Nova Scotia, and all of them (except New York) would recognise the Republic of Vermont as a sovereign entity. Vermont would send a delegation to the Boston Convention and be recognised as a member of the recently formed Commonwealth of New England. Rhode Island would also join the Commonwealth in 1794 after their brief attempt at independence ruined the elite of the country and they requested joining the Commonwealth to prevent a popular uprising from toppling their regime. The remaining US States called for a new Congress that would decide the fate of the remnants of the Union. The Articles of Confederation were discarded as the law of the land in 1789, and replaced by a new constitutional text, resulting in the creation of the Union of Atlantic States, to which a delegation from Ohio quickly swore loyalty, causing a minor crisis with Virginia.
For Europe, the collapse of the United States was something that many had already predicted and it was a boon for conservative thinkers, yet their successful revolution against British forces and the fact that the post-US states (Columbian Nations eventually became the term to refer to them [6]) had proven that a liberal rebellion against the ancient regimen was possible, inspiring many groups such as the Dutch “Patriotten” that took control of most of the Netherlands before the Prussian army invaded in September 1787 and crushed their regime. However, in no place was the impact of the American Revolution more permanent than in France, which was about to have a revolution of its own.
Flags of the Columbian Nations [7], from left to right, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, UAS, Vermont, Rhode Island, and New England
[1] - State attendance based on the 1786 Annapolis Convention of 1786.
[2] - Despite the cession of its “sea to sea” claim, Connecticut still holds de iure a tract of land south of Lake Erie and west of Pennsylvania, the Western Reserve, which is actually larger than Connecticut itself.
[3] - Britain did not evacuate the Northwestern forts until the 1795 Jay Treaty IOTL.
[4] - IOTL Rhode Island continued to be governed by the Royal Charter until 1842, when the Dorr Rebellion forced the conservative elite of the state to grant more liberties.
[5] - Most of the artillery at the end of the Revolutionary War was concentrated in and around New York city, as it would likely be used to besiege the city. Also IOTL, the first US regiment of artillery was mostly composed of New Yorkers.
[6] - Pretty much all of these flags did not exist back then, for some I took inspiration from later flags (such as North Carolina), while I made the design for others (such as Virginia).
[7] - The term “Columbia” was initially comedic, but by the time of the American Revolution it had become a poetic name for America.
[2] - Despite the cession of its “sea to sea” claim, Connecticut still holds de iure a tract of land south of Lake Erie and west of Pennsylvania, the Western Reserve, which is actually larger than Connecticut itself.
[3] - Britain did not evacuate the Northwestern forts until the 1795 Jay Treaty IOTL.
[4] - IOTL Rhode Island continued to be governed by the Royal Charter until 1842, when the Dorr Rebellion forced the conservative elite of the state to grant more liberties.
[5] - Most of the artillery at the end of the Revolutionary War was concentrated in and around New York city, as it would likely be used to besiege the city. Also IOTL, the first US regiment of artillery was mostly composed of New Yorkers.
[6] - Pretty much all of these flags did not exist back then, for some I took inspiration from later flags (such as North Carolina), while I made the design for others (such as Virginia).
[7] - The term “Columbia” was initially comedic, but by the time of the American Revolution it had become a poetic name for America.
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Deleted member 147978
As if would be Republican-Enthused Columbian settlers nice beyond the Mississippi River that is.
Oh, Texas is a given, if the previous iterations of the TL are to be believed
The "end" results of the previous version of the TL are to be mostly believed, however changes will be made regarding the how and when stuff happens. For example, this new version features the US collapsing a decade earlier than the previous TL, yet the states coming out of the collapse are (almost) the same. Regarding Texas, settlement was opened by Spaniards in 1819 to foreign families, concretely those that Moses Austin could bring, as Texas only had a population of around 2,500 people. However, most colonisation efforts happened after, specially with the General Colonization Law of 1824. By that time, Mexico's history is going to be different, so who knows how I'll tackle the problem, maybe through illegal immigration as by that time almost 3,000 Americans had settled in Texas, but that was coming from a unified country that had a direct land border with the Mexican province.
I would have something similar to the 1819 and 1824 laws, just opened to general foreigners, not explicitly Anglo-Americans (though used mostly by Anglo-Americans), enough to get Texas to its OTL levels
Great update , will this new nations expand west as in our timeline ? i imagine so , but how fast ?
Does this mean that the spanish actually have a chance of keeping their western territories?
A lot of fascinating possibilitties
Does this mean that the spanish actually have a chance of keeping their western territories?
A lot of fascinating possibilitties
i Just Must say That Having Read The Old TL This is Waaaaaaay Better so Thank You for Good TL
So it has happened, the US imploded and we get a bunch of divided states that can easily be sent off against one another.
I'm now interested to seeing how the revolution will go on from here
I'm now interested to seeing how the revolution will go on from here
Before expanding west the nations need to stabilise their economies and secure their current holdings, everything west of the Appalachians is still barely settled and mostly controlled by Indians that are hostile to the new weaker (compared to OTL's US) Columbian governments. They will definetely expand west, at least in terms of population, regarding their borders, that's more complicated, none has the strength the US had.
The Spanish do indeed have a chance of keeping the west, however the outcome depends on how Spain fares in the coming two decades and the events in Louisiana and New Spain.
Chapter 13: Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, or Death
~ Chapter 13: Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, or Death ~
During the last decades of the 18th century France was a nation verging on economic ruin. The vast series of wars France had taken part in since the reign of Louis XIV almost a century ago had driven the treasury almost empty, and France was spending massive amounts of money to keep its military prowess afloat, as well as having to pay the debt the crown had been amassing since the Seven Years’ War, the payment of which reached almost half of the earnings of the crown in some years. This is not because France had a lack of resources, on the contrary, but a symptom of the ineffectiveness of the taxation system in France. Many groups of people and entire regions barely paid taxes, the “pays d’états” could control their own taxes resulting in less revenue for the crown, and many cities or groups were exempt from the “taille” (the most important tax). The nobility was also exempt from the “taille”, albeit they had to pay their own, less onerous, taxes such as the “capitation” and the “vingtième” (5% of their income). The size of the nobility was also disproportionate, with nobility titles being sold by the monarchy for ages as a way to gain money in the short term, but that hampered their finances in the long run. With the nobility controlling a quarter of the land, the church another 10% [1], and with the economy in tatters, France could not kick the can any further.
French spending in the American Revolutionary War had been supported with loans taken with an interest between 8% and 10% that now had to be repaid and required new taxes. Most of the king’s ministers were aware of this situation and tried to push for a tax reform, but every time this was blocked by the nobility, that did not want to see its possessions taken over by an absolutist monarchy that had expelled them from power a century ago, and the aristocracy began to take a more offensive approach to the situation, siding with the French parliaments [2]. Louis XV got tired of the parliaments and suppressed them, but died shortly after and his grandson Louis XVI [3] restored them, and the parliaments argued that only the Estates General could ratify new taxes, and continued to obstruct any attempted tax reform. Controller-General of Finances, Charles Alexandre de Calonne initially obtained success with his reforms, but in 1786 the economy crashed again, and he proposed abolishing tax exemptions based on status, with the base for taxation being instead on how rich a person was, as well as proposing to abolish the internal customs between the kingdom’s provinces. The Assembly of Notables took down Calonne’s proposals and the king dismissed him.
Louis XVI, King of France
Calonne’s successor, Loménie de Brienne, was equally unsuccessful when trying to doublegate the nobility, resorting to clausuring the parliaments, an act which was met with resistance as the parliaments were considered (erroneously) as a dike against tyranny, such was the case of Grenoble, where a popular mob prevented the troops from closing the Dauphiné parliament. Seeing no other way around, Louis XVI called the Estates General for a session in May 1789 after Brienne resigned and was replaced by the protestant Jacques Necker after Brienne declared France to be bankrupt [4]. The aristocracy and the common folk were collaborating to restrict the powers of the monarchy, however that alliance broke down after a decision by the parliament of Paris supporting aristocratic interests. Popular works, such as those of Siéyes assisted in building a “third estate consciousness” and the king agreed to duplicate the third estate’s representatives in December 1788.
The choice of representatives for the Estates General was a direct one in the first and second estates, but for the third estate chose its representatives through an indirect voting, resulting in men with a good oratory and cultured to come to the forefront of politics, such as Robespierre or Mounier. However the third estate was still considered inferior, with their representatives forced to dress in black, not to wear a hat and they were to meet in a different room while the first and second estates would meet in another room and would have none of those conditions imposed on them. The third estate would take a more offensive approach, refusing to accept any proposal, and on June 17 they declared themselves as the “National Assembly” [5], and when they found their room closed three days later they took over a tennis court and took a collective oath “not to separate, and to reassemble wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the kingdom is established”.
The choice of representatives for the Estates General was a direct one in the first and second estates, but for the third estate chose its representatives through an indirect voting, resulting in men with a good oratory and cultured to come to the forefront of politics, such as Robespierre or Mounier. However the third estate was still considered inferior, with their representatives forced to dress in black, not to wear a hat and they were to meet in a different room while the first and second estates would meet in another room and would have none of those conditions imposed on them. The third estate would take a more offensive approach, refusing to accept any proposal, and on June 17 they declared themselves as the “National Assembly” [5], and when they found their room closed three days later they took over a tennis court and took a collective oath “not to separate, and to reassemble wherever circumstances require, until the constitution of the kingdom is established”.
The Tennis Court Oath
Members of the first and second estates defected to the National Assembly and an alarmed Louis decreed on July 1 that all estates were to meet in the same room. The king dismissed Necker soon after following the advice of his younger brother Charles, and rumors spread that the king was to employ the Swiss Guard to shut down the National Assembly, so a group of rebels stormed the Bastille to seize weapons, with the soldiers offering meager resistance after the French Guards (an elite infantry unit) sided with them. Fearing to lose the capital, Louis headed to the city, where on July 19 he accepted a tricolour cocade, with the colours of the flag of Paris separated by a white stripe representing the monarchy. However, the power had shifted from the court to the Assembly, as Louis was received as “father of the French and king of a free people”. The rapid developments in Paris caused a panic outbreak in rural areas, and many lords began to flee France, forming the “Émigrés”, a group that would aim to restore absolutist rule in France and that would be operative for years to come.
The National Assembly passed the Declarations of the Rights of Man and of the Citizens [6] in the midst of a tense atmosphere in Paris, as groups such as the sans-culottes. The economic situation kept deteriorating, with the price of bread skyrocketing through the autumn and a group of over 6,000 women marched on Versailles demanding more bread and a lower price, Lafayette tried to restore order but his soldiers threatened to desert. Louis finally agreed to recognise the Declaration of the Rights of Man and officially became a Constitutional Monarch, changing the title of “King of France” for that of “King of the French”. The clergy was attacked intensely by the National Assembly and their properties were seized with their value serving as a base for a new paper currency, the assignat, which initially operated as a bond but was redefined as a legal tender to deal with a liquidity crisis, however its value kept decreasing. Another attempt at refloating the economy passed by removing the East India Company’s monopoly, however that failed to bear results as the company was so powerful that it obstructed other merchants, despite taking a big blow [7].
The National Assembly passed the Declarations of the Rights of Man and of the Citizens [6] in the midst of a tense atmosphere in Paris, as groups such as the sans-culottes. The economic situation kept deteriorating, with the price of bread skyrocketing through the autumn and a group of over 6,000 women marched on Versailles demanding more bread and a lower price, Lafayette tried to restore order but his soldiers threatened to desert. Louis finally agreed to recognise the Declaration of the Rights of Man and officially became a Constitutional Monarch, changing the title of “King of France” for that of “King of the French”. The clergy was attacked intensely by the National Assembly and their properties were seized with their value serving as a base for a new paper currency, the assignat, which initially operated as a bond but was redefined as a legal tender to deal with a liquidity crisis, however its value kept decreasing. Another attempt at refloating the economy passed by removing the East India Company’s monopoly, however that failed to bear results as the company was so powerful that it obstructed other merchants, despite taking a big blow [7].
La Fayette opening the Feast of the Federation
The Feast of the Federation in 1790 opened to commemorate the Storming of the Bastille, and was assisted by Louis XVI and the entire royal family, with Talleyrand performing a mass and La Fayette leading an oath to the constitution which was followed by a similar one recited by Louis XVI. Everything seemed to go well, but divisions were appearing as the Jacobins split up from the main group of revolutionaries, and heavily criticised General Bouillé’s suppression of the Nancy Revolt. Bouillé himself was a hardcore royalist and traditionalist, and considering that the atmosphere in Paris was too radical, offered Louis XVI to come to his headquarters at Montmédy and restore order with 10,000 loyal soldiers, but the king was (allegedly) recognised by a soldier at Varennes when he compared his face to that of a coin, and the king was taken back to Paris. Meanwhile, as Prussia and Austria were negotiating the Second Partition of Poland, the Count of Artois (Louis XVI’s younger brother, the same man behind Necker’s dismissal) talked to both monarchs and they both signed the Pillnitz Declaration supporting the crown [8].
The Constituent Assembly, the legal successor to the National Assembly, dissolved itself and was replaced by the Legislative Assembly, which limited the vote excluding the sans-culottes and proved to be an ineffective body. On September 14 a new Constitution was passed and Louis, who was pretty much a prisoner at the Palace of the Tuileries, accepted it, but he vetoed almost every resolution coming from the new assembly. The figure of Jacques Pierre Brissot began to gain momentum as his supporters considered the Pillnitz Declaration as a declaration of war and believed that the values of the French Revolution had to be expanded internationally, by force if necessary. Pressured by the new Brissotin-dominated assembly [9], Louis decreed in December 1791 that foreign powers were to disband Émigré forces within a month or face war. Finally, on April 20 1792, the Legislative Assembly declared war on the Habsburgs after foreign secretary Dumoriez presented the Assembly with a long list of grievances.
[1] - Those church lands were quite profitable, but their only payment to the crown consisted of voluntary apportations.
[2] - Which had no real power as the monarch could simply ignore them, they were more of a consultative institution.
[3] - Louis, the Dauphin, died of tuberculosis in 1765 both IOTL and ITTL. I got you there with the note in the text, for a split second you thought this Louis XVI was not OTL’s Louis. I don't intend to mess with royal family trees because it's far from my specialty, but I will change some lineages.
[4] - The extra credit from French India and the Caribbeans goes mostly to the private hands of companies. While France’s economic situation is better than IOTL, it’s not enough to stop a bankruptcy.
[5] - This National Assembly, according to them, superseded the Estates General.
[6] - A different version, with almost no influence from Jefferson, he’s pretty busy tweaking the Virginian Constitution.
[7] - IOTL the French East India Company almost collapsed after that decree, only surviving barely and being finally liquidated in 1794, which caused a political scandal and the downfall of the montagnard faction and of Georges Danton.
[8] - Allegedly, Charles was so annoying that both monarchs only complied so he would shut up.
[9] - Another term for the Girondins, which stuck ITTL.
The Constituent Assembly, the legal successor to the National Assembly, dissolved itself and was replaced by the Legislative Assembly, which limited the vote excluding the sans-culottes and proved to be an ineffective body. On September 14 a new Constitution was passed and Louis, who was pretty much a prisoner at the Palace of the Tuileries, accepted it, but he vetoed almost every resolution coming from the new assembly. The figure of Jacques Pierre Brissot began to gain momentum as his supporters considered the Pillnitz Declaration as a declaration of war and believed that the values of the French Revolution had to be expanded internationally, by force if necessary. Pressured by the new Brissotin-dominated assembly [9], Louis decreed in December 1791 that foreign powers were to disband Émigré forces within a month or face war. Finally, on April 20 1792, the Legislative Assembly declared war on the Habsburgs after foreign secretary Dumoriez presented the Assembly with a long list of grievances.
[1] - Those church lands were quite profitable, but their only payment to the crown consisted of voluntary apportations.
[2] - Which had no real power as the monarch could simply ignore them, they were more of a consultative institution.
[3] - Louis, the Dauphin, died of tuberculosis in 1765 both IOTL and ITTL. I got you there with the note in the text, for a split second you thought this Louis XVI was not OTL’s Louis. I don't intend to mess with royal family trees because it's far from my specialty, but I will change some lineages.
[4] - The extra credit from French India and the Caribbeans goes mostly to the private hands of companies. While France’s economic situation is better than IOTL, it’s not enough to stop a bankruptcy.
[5] - This National Assembly, according to them, superseded the Estates General.
[6] - A different version, with almost no influence from Jefferson, he’s pretty busy tweaking the Virginian Constitution.
[7] - IOTL the French East India Company almost collapsed after that decree, only surviving barely and being finally liquidated in 1794, which caused a political scandal and the downfall of the montagnard faction and of Georges Danton.
[8] - Allegedly, Charles was so annoying that both monarchs only complied so he would shut up.
[9] - Another term for the Girondins, which stuck ITTL.
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Very cool chapter, only one small problem, the National Assembly likely wouldn't form if it isn't on the day it did OTL. Basically, that was a day of storm, so the message that the reunions for the day were cancelled never reached the Third Estates leaders, and they therefore went under heavy rain to their meeting place, only to find it closed. They got increasingly angry, and one man that was friend with the owner of the Tennis Court and had its keys proposed to meet there instead. They were kind of outraged to have to meet in a Tennis Court, and quickly they angered and angered more and proclaimed the National Assembly. Now, if it isn't on that day (as the storm moved very fast over Paris, reaching Versailles in the late afternoon/early evening of that same day) they would be warned, and most likely an outburst of outrage over the King not hearing any of their grievances would happen a few months later. Note that the King is bloody depressed because his kid died the day before the États Généraux were opened. Parliamentary nobility would quickly join forces with the Bourgeoisie, and boom, you have a whole new set-up, with most likely not "National Assembly" as a name, perhaps something closer to "Constitutional or Parliamentary Assembly" or such.
Didn't know that much about the circunstanes on that same day. Do you think that "Constitutional/Parlamentary Assembly" would have worked in a manner similar to OTL's National Assembly? If it's likely to deviate much from our TL I'll just change the day of the meeting back to the OTL rainy day.
I think it would be less radical at first, and most likely wouldn't peak at all in extremism under the same circumstances as OTL, as the National Assembly started by being a group of angry men, but they never ceased to be angry, instead the anger either slightly calmed down and formed the Girondins, or skyrocketed and formed the Jacobins/Montagnards. If it doesn't start chaotically made up by a group of angry, wet to the bone lads, it would be at its beginnings much more calm and easy on absolute monarchy, and with time, upon seeing the inability of the French govt to reform quickly enough, they'd radicalise more and more, but we'd most likely not see the Terror happening, as the circumstances of the Terror, while not butterflied away (imo), would not happen at the right time to allow it to well, happen. The King could even not try to flee France at all, or at least later. The Revolution is a really tricky period, because everything happens fast as fuck and is almost always a bloody chaos disguised in clothings of order when it can be, created by very specific events that happened at the right time at the right place (or seeing what happened during the revolution, at the wrong time and wrong place). There are a few things you can tweak that wouldn't change much the Revolution, and Napoleon's rise as long as the Revolution happens is more likely by the day, but things like how the Republic and its different govts worked may completely change, even more important many people would die while others would not, and the post Napoleonic sentiment about Republicanism in France and countries that were under the Revolutionary Republic would at least change a consequential bit.
If I were you, knowing that this TL's focus isn't an alternate history on the French revolution, I'd advise to change it back to the day it happened OTL, but if you want some things to change, you still may, it'll just be quite tricky.
All right, thanks for your reply , I'll put back the date to OTL form. I want to do some minor tweaks to the French Revolution, nothing major as I still want the terror to happen and Napoleon is still going to rise to power.
It would be good if the Spanish did not catch fire until they were screwed up like they did in our world, if they do a little better and with Great Britain and France screwed up, they could be calmer. I think that if the French settlers present a bit of trouble, Spain might consider trying to actively populate Louisiana with populations from other colonies and the peninsula to counterbalance them.
They could also lose South America and initiate changes to prevent it from happening again. If Mexico rebels, they could keep Louisiana and Texas, being too far from the heart of New Spain.
Problem I see is that Louisiana is kind of ruled by the French elite, and depending on the time Spain either doesn't care about it as long as they get no taxes on the New Orleans port, or is content with it because the French elite doing whatever they want is actually what Spain wanted so yeah, also the colonies around Louisiana are either not populated or populated by Anglos
Perhaps the French do something that they do not want the Spanish to do or the king sees having a population that does not speak your language is very risky. Although populating Louisiana I think it is more important, because it is frankly massive and first we will have to go through Louisiana (except Florida) to get to the rest, besides that the attempts to populate Louisiana could come close to Texas. Maybe they don't need the French, an Anglo revolt could have the same effect as a French revolt.