Venice Republic: A world - class colonial power

nova2010

Banned
In the map we saw the Venician colonies in the Med. from 15th to late 18th century. I am asking was possible for Venice to expand beyond Med. to Africa, Indies, Far East or even to Americas. To be more like Portugal or Netherlands? What the impact?

800px-Venezianische_Kolonien.png
 
Nice topic, I also wondered why Venice or other Italian city states never established trading post in Africa and Asia like the Dutch Republic.
Probably had something to do with the economic and political situation of that time in Italy
 

Sandmannius

Banned
Nice topic, I also wondered why Venice or other Italian city states never established trading post in Africa and Asia like the Dutch Republic.
Probably had something to do with the economic and political situation of that time in Italy

The biggest reason was because they were confined to the Mediterranean and going through the strait of Gibraltar could be quite tricky.
 
Also, powers like Venice, which sought to sew up the trade in Eastern goods, were a major reason for relatively peripheral nations like Portugal and Spain to seek other channels to access those markets.

The Venetians didn't perceive a need to go roaming around looking for routes around Africa, across the Ocean Sea, or picking their way through ice packs looking for a Northwest Passage. They already owned the direct route!

Eventually of course the hard way the Iberians and other Atlantic nations had to take paid off. But who foresaw that in 1500?
 
I think Venice could be more interested to expand towards East... The first brick of the building could be the conquest of Alexandria: it also had the legitimate claim to restoring the original seat of St. Mark...
Later, it could manage to try to take Eygpt before the Ottomans... and then the doors to East were open.
 
What's the Red Sea like for ships? I have vague memories of reading somewhere that the wind and currents make it a bit of bastard to sail in a certain direction for a lot of the year for sail powered ships but can't be sure.

If you want them expanding maybe have them do a deal at some point with whoever is ruling Egypt at the time to set up an overland caravan route over the Sinai Peninsula? IIRC during the early to mid-years of British rule in India a British businessman set up a chain for forts/way stations across the thinnest part and ran camel trains transporting people, mail and goods from sea to sea and managed to cut a large amount of time off compared to going around the Cape. It actually caused some complications in India since with the journey times being cut some much more western ladies went out to be wives and generally put an end to the British traders and administrators marrying local women, but that's another matter.

So maybe they do a deal with the Mamluks to try and cut the Ottomans out of things to their mutual financial advantage? Direct trade with the Middle East and India eventually leads to them setting up trading factories like the early East India Company or take over a small area like the Portuguese did with Goa. The main problem I see with them gaining much more than this is manpower, I don't think they had the population to throw at becoming a 'world-class colonial power' like you're looking for.
 
Actually, during a history project on the most Serene republic of Venice I remembered that the Venetians actually considered creating the Suez Canal after their trade started dying off due to the discovery of the cape.

Now if they made that before the discovery Italy would certainly be richer, the New World would get to grow older before discovery, and Eurasia would certainly be more advanced . Instead of a East-West split in wealth today we may very well see a Old-New split instead.

I always had a soft spot for the sinking city.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Venice lack Atlantic access, and really, the Venetian traders got what they needed from the Mediterranean.

However if Venice really wanted, a plantation island or two in the Caribbean could be possible, but they'll need to be friendly with whoever control Gibraltar.
 
Yes, Venice is the last European state to actually consider colonization.

There's a reason their heyday was in the time oceangoing vessels weren't used in Europe.
 
Venice lack Atlantic access, and really, the Venetian traders got what they needed from the Mediterranean.

That's it.

Nevertheless, I once read an interesting idea somewhere: What if Venice was a really close ally of the Hapsburgs, particularly the German branch? Up to a point at which Venice and the German Hapsburgs found joint colonies? As long as the Hapsburgs rule Spain, the exit into the Atlantic is secure. Change the outcome of the Spanish war of succession such that spain does not become Bourbon - say that Wittelsbach guy gets the throne of Spain and guarantees further access to the Atlantic.
 
That's it.

Nevertheless, I once read an interesting idea somewhere: What if Venice was a really close ally of the Hapsburgs, particularly the German branch? Up to a point at which Venice and the German Hapsburgs found joint colonies? As long as the Hapsburgs rule Spain, the exit into the Atlantic is secure. Change the outcome of the Spanish war of succession such that spain does not become Bourbon - say that Wittelsbach guy gets the throne of Spain and guarantees further access to the Atlantic.

The possible POD is that since Venice and the Habsburgs have a mutual foe in the Ottomans, perhaps increased cooperation between the two could result in Venetian colonies.
 
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