sorry if that comes across very defensively, i just put alot of time into it so negative criticism... not taken to well
wont happen againVenice: Dawn of a new power
- Thread starter Franciscus Caesar
- Start date
sorry if that comes across very defensively, i just put alot of time into it so negative criticism... not taken to well
wont happen againVenice: Dawn of a new Power Part 4, The War!
Ok everyone, the war thats been looming ever since part 1 is here!! i know this is very recent considering my last installment was Monday (i think), but i am leaving for Italy in a bit and the creative juices are really flowing! Anyways, i am not a military expert (except in the fields of WW2) so if something sounds a little too ASB (its a wank so it has to be a bit) but if a part is too much, please remember im not a pro at battles so i gave it my best. i really think this is a sick part to the TL! Thank you again to those who have helped and as usual, comment, suggest for the future, recommend and primarily, ENJOY!!
The Battle of Aden
Date: January 2nd, 1520
Outcome: Allied victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 5 smaller naus, 3 caravels, 2 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 6 galeas, 5 caravels, 6 brigantines
The battle was started by the Portuguese. They blasted the Fort of Aden all morning. The walls stayed strong and attackers inside the forts attacked back. Cannons blasted all morning, however, the Allies’ naval power was a no show. After each side blasting for 5 hours, the Portuguese decided to move on and sail to the Portuguese Port at Ormuz to replenish their arsenal. This is when the Venetian trap was sprung. The Venetian Forts were built differently than other ports in that they were built with Arsenales in them (Arsenale: a large dockyard where ships, weapons and ammunition were made). These dockyards were hidden inside the walls of the Fort, therefore hiding the Allied Force inside. This was, however, not the whole allied force at Aden. Most of the force went on patrol earlier in the morning before the Portuguese attack. They, on the other hand, were due back any minute. The doors of the fort’s arsenale only opened when the rest of the fleet was visible. Venetian forces attacked the already fleeing Portuguese. Engaged, the Portuguese force turned around and began to fight. They were, in turn, surrounded by the incoming patrol force. Now being forced against the Fort walls by the large main force and being rained upon by the Fort’s cannon fire and small naval force (that of which stayed behind from the patrol), The Portuguese force began to be damaged and burned. The first battle of the war was now over and resulted in a huge win for the Venetian allies. Whatever Portuguese ships that weren’t destroyed were taken, fixed, and went into circulation with the allied fleet. These were 2 Carracks, and 2 brigantines. This strategy became the standard action to deal with the Portuguese until they began to get wise of it.
January 6th, 1520: A Portuguese force sent off from the initial armada at Aden (of which part was destroyed by the allies) travels north up into the red sea and sights the port of Jidan. This fleet is slightly smaller than the other Portuguese fleet and attacks the fort. The result is very similar to the battle of Aden except for the fact that all Portuguese captive ships sunk within 2 days of the battle.
The Commander of the Portuguese Armada (stationed in Goa) was in charge of directing the war in the Indian Ocean. After receiving words of his two previous defeats, he becomes enraged and decides that the Venetians are not playing around. He begins to gather a large force. This force will sail to the Fort at Massawa to take it. He will later use it as an outpost to defeat all the other Venetian Forts.
The Battle of Al Mukalla
Date: January 12th, 1520
Outcome: Indecisive Portuguese victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 4 large naus, 2 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 7 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 5 galeas, 2 caravels, 4 brigantines
The last part of the Initial Armada sails to the Venetian Port at Al Mukalla. Once there, as in the previous battles, the Portuguese forces began to deliver heavy cannon fire on the Fort. This mimicked the battle of Aden until the 6th hour, when the Portuguese ships refused to leave. This is when the commander of the Fort of Al Mukalla decided that the gates of the arsenale be opened and the allied naval force challenge the Portuguese head on. This move, however, was not as effective as in Aden due to the layout of the arsenale at this particular fort. Due to its position, just as the gates were being opened, the Portuguese got first hit opportunities as they were directly infront of the gates. The allied forces managed to inflict heavy damage to the already exhausted Portuguese fleet but in the end, many allied ships were bound to the confines of the arsenale due to the closeness of fighting to it. By the end of the battle early the next morning, both fleets were destroyed. The remaining allied fleet retreated back to the arsenale and the remaining Portuguese force sailed to Bahrain. The battle was very indecisive however, the Portugues can claim to be the “victors” only because damage to both fleets was equal and the Portuguese did damage to the arsenale and Fort at Al Mukalla.
February 1st, 1520: Francisco Pizzaro, mayor of Panama City (OTL’s conquistador of Peru), dies in Panama City after being stabbed to death by a man loyal to Vasco nunez de Balboa
February 8th, 1520: Commanders from Venice, the Ottoman Empire, and France convene at Jisan to discuss what went wrong at Al Mukalla. The meeting ends with the agreement of all attending powers to replenish the destroyed fleet.
The Battle of the Gulf of Aden
Date: February 22nd, 1520
Outcome: decisive Portuguese victory, annihilation of the Ottoman Al Mukalla replacement fleet
Combatants: Portugal vs. Ottoman Empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 4 gales
Ottomans: 3 galeas, 3 caravels, 6 brigantines
As the Ottoman replacement fleet for the recent defeated force at Al Mukalla sails midway into the Gulf of Aden, it is suddenly attacked by a strong Portuguese fleet. The Ottoman fleet is equipped solely of non-battle tried sailors whereas the Portugueses is made of the opposite. The battle does not last long, primarily because the greatness in naval power on the Portuguese side, and secondly, because ottoman sailors were wasting munitions and manpower due to careless shooting and cannon balls either ending up in the ocean or hitting friendly vessels (this does not happen in other battles because of the limited Ottoman presence on other allied battles. Usually the allied navy consists of mostly experienced Venetian or French sailors and a few ottomans to shoot muskets and help the Venetians/French). In the end, the Portuguese escape relatively unscathed while the Ottoman replacement force is destroyed.
February 23rd, 1520: the Portuguese force responsible for the defeat of the Ottomans sails to Al Mukalla, hoping to finish it off.
The siege of Al Mukalla
Date: February 29th, 1520 (began)
Outcome: Stalemate
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venetian Fort of Al Mukalla
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 4 gales
Allies: 1 large carrack, 2 galeas, 1 caravel, 4 brigantines
Determining that the allies were destroyed at the previous battle in Al Mukalla, the Portuguese force that destroyed the ottomans sails to Al Mukalla. One there, they blockade the waters around the Fort and begin to lay siege to it. Both sides fire cannons but the Fort refuses to fall. After 2 hours, the Portuguese manage to make their way into the Fort’s arsenale. Once inside, the Portuguese men get off their ships and begin a manned assault on the fort. Just as the assault begins, it is apparent that the Portuguese have bitten of more than they can chew. Immediately, the massive allied force (mostly Ottoman, as they were the manpower of the war) achieves the upper hand and the Portuguese can’t seem to deliver a blow. Their remaining men retreat to their ships and sail into open waters. They continue to block the waters to the fort, but they have lost many men in the assault.
March 12th, 1520: French replacements arrive at Al Mukalla, along with their Venetian Counterparts. Just as they get in the vicinity, they immediately see the Portuguese blockade. They must attack.
The second Battle of Al Mukalla
Date: March 12th, 1520 (siege is lifted)
Outcome: Allied victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 4 caravels, 3 gales (minor damage on all Portuguese ships)
Allies: 7 large carracks, 6 galeas, 6 caravels, 7 brigantines
The allies and Portuguese both have fair warning of each others positions. The battle begins with hours long cannon fire. It is then followed by an allied lead, again, pushing the Portuguese against the Fort where they are rained down on by cannons. As hours progress, it is clear that the allies are back with a vengeance. Both sides have considerable losses but the allies are the clear winners. Al Mukalla is now guarded by a powerful force again as it was before, except this is now the most powerful naval fort of the 5 (Venetian built) Forts. The reason for this strongest naval presence is because all the other forts are in close proximity to another fort, excluding Al Mukalla.
March 20th, 1520: A legion of slave workers arrives to Al Mukalla from the port of Massawa. Due to the many slaves Venice can muster, repairs to the allied navy and Venetian Forts happen very quickly.
March 28th, 1520: Manuel I of Portugal gets news of his latest defeat. He is furious with this and his massive losses of men and naval power in the first half year of the war. He is running terribly low on Portuguese forces in Indian Ocean and quickly orders the replenishment of them.
Meanwhile, Loredan and Francis I of France meet in Paris to discuss matters. Loredan realizes that though his friendship with the Ottomans has been and still is exceptional in both monetary returns and power, there is too much difference between them and an ally ship between the two will eventually end in some way or another. Loredan sees that France can fill the void of the Ottomans and he works quickly to cement a close friendship with them. Loredan proposes a joint French-Venetian built Fort (belonging to Venice, however, but with large French presence). This fort will be built immediately and will be massive. It will act as a boundary to stop Portuguese vessels from replenishing the east. Francis takes a good liking toward Loredan but says he will think about it.
April 2nd, 1520: The commander at Goa has mustered all available naval power in the vicinity. It is not an exceptional force and suffers from relatively low numbers. This is due to a string of Portuguese losses in the Indian Ocean. He knows he could and should wait for more ships to arrive from Portugal but he is furious and excited to hit back at the allies. He decides to send the fleet to crush Massawa anyways.
The Battle of Massawa
Date: April 16th, 1520
Outcome: Stalemate
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 4 large naus, 5 smaller naus, 7 caravels, 8 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 6 galeas, 5 caravels, 6 brigantines
The “large” fleet mustered by the commander at Goa arrives at Massawa. Marco Maranazzo is the one who first sights the fleet from his tower window. Maranazzo is ecstatic that his turn to beat the Portuguese has arrived. The battle initiates as all the others; Initial cannon fighting. After hours of ferocious fighting, the Venetian arsenale opens and the allied fleet is revealed. The two navies fought a hard battle which lead to no decisive winner. Both sides took heavy losses of men and minor losses of naval power but in the end, each navy parted. The allied force retreated to the arsenale and the Portuguese went south.
Afonso Avila, Commander of the Portuguese fleet noticed a week spot in the forts design. He noticed a space in the back of the fort, opened to Africa. Avila decides that a sneak attack from behind will allow a raid on the fort. He commands the fleet to sail a few miles south of the fort, dock, and have an army assemble. The army will then march on the fort. This will take place after 5 days rest. Estimated army strength for this assault: 2,000 men
April 18th, 1520: Just as the Portuguese have amassed on land and are now attending to their wounded after the battle, an Ethiopian coffee gatherer to the l’Africa Orientale Veneziana (Venetian East Africa. In this TL, it will be referred to as AOV), sees them and immediately recognizes the flag. The man has been into the Fort at Massawa many times and recognizes that the Portuguese are an enemy of his colonial master, Venice. He quickly hops on a horse and darts to Massawa.
Later on that night… The man gains an audience with Marco Maranazzo, Commander of the Fort of Massawa. He tells Maranazzo of the Portuguese force. Maranazzo is thrilled by this development. He realizes that the Portuguese must have seen the unorthodox back of his fort and are going to attack from there. Maranazzo wastes no time in gathering up his Nubian Guard.
April 19th, 1520: Maranazzo’s Nubian Guard is now ready to march. Its force numbers 10,000 armed black infantry men with an armed cavalry numbering 3,000. They Depart from Massawa after pledging allegiance to Venice and chanting an Our Father.
As the sun was beginning to set, Maranazzo and his Nubian Guard come face to face with the Portuguese. The latter group sees this odd looking force and doesn’t know what to think. Though they have many wounded men, the Portuguese are sure that their fearsome army can handle a few inferior Africans. The Portuguese gather into their battle formations and both sides are ready to strike. The battle began with an exchange of artillery and musket fire. Afonso Avila, in command of his force, ordered an attack on the Nubian Guard’s Center. As this happened, Maranazzo ordered his powerful cavalry to attack the weakened and dispersed Portuguese lines, sweeping away any Portuguese horses and many men. A general rout followed. The Venetian Nubian Guard lost 800 men whereas the Portuguese Force was decimated. In following days, the Venetians took all the docked Portuguese ships (as the remaining Portuguese gave up without a fight) and claimed them as their own. The Portuguese force in the Indian Ocean is now defeated and until reinforcements arrive, the Portuguese east lies defenceless against an allied offensive.
Ok everyone, the war thats been looming ever since part 1 is here!! i know this is very recent considering my last installment was Monday (i think), but i am leaving for Italy in a bit and the creative juices are really flowing! Anyways, i am not a military expert (except in the fields of WW2) so if something sounds a little too ASB (its a wank so it has to be a bit) but if a part is too much, please remember im not a pro at battles so i gave it my best. i really think this is a sick part to the TL! Thank you again to those who have helped and as usual, comment, suggest for the future, recommend and primarily, ENJOY!!
The Battle of Aden
Date: January 2nd, 1520
Outcome: Allied victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 5 smaller naus, 3 caravels, 2 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 6 galeas, 5 caravels, 6 brigantines
The battle was started by the Portuguese. They blasted the Fort of Aden all morning. The walls stayed strong and attackers inside the forts attacked back. Cannons blasted all morning, however, the Allies’ naval power was a no show. After each side blasting for 5 hours, the Portuguese decided to move on and sail to the Portuguese Port at Ormuz to replenish their arsenal. This is when the Venetian trap was sprung. The Venetian Forts were built differently than other ports in that they were built with Arsenales in them (Arsenale: a large dockyard where ships, weapons and ammunition were made). These dockyards were hidden inside the walls of the Fort, therefore hiding the Allied Force inside. This was, however, not the whole allied force at Aden. Most of the force went on patrol earlier in the morning before the Portuguese attack. They, on the other hand, were due back any minute. The doors of the fort’s arsenale only opened when the rest of the fleet was visible. Venetian forces attacked the already fleeing Portuguese. Engaged, the Portuguese force turned around and began to fight. They were, in turn, surrounded by the incoming patrol force. Now being forced against the Fort walls by the large main force and being rained upon by the Fort’s cannon fire and small naval force (that of which stayed behind from the patrol), The Portuguese force began to be damaged and burned. The first battle of the war was now over and resulted in a huge win for the Venetian allies. Whatever Portuguese ships that weren’t destroyed were taken, fixed, and went into circulation with the allied fleet. These were 2 Carracks, and 2 brigantines. This strategy became the standard action to deal with the Portuguese until they began to get wise of it.
January 6th, 1520: A Portuguese force sent off from the initial armada at Aden (of which part was destroyed by the allies) travels north up into the red sea and sights the port of Jidan. This fleet is slightly smaller than the other Portuguese fleet and attacks the fort. The result is very similar to the battle of Aden except for the fact that all Portuguese captive ships sunk within 2 days of the battle.
The Commander of the Portuguese Armada (stationed in Goa) was in charge of directing the war in the Indian Ocean. After receiving words of his two previous defeats, he becomes enraged and decides that the Venetians are not playing around. He begins to gather a large force. This force will sail to the Fort at Massawa to take it. He will later use it as an outpost to defeat all the other Venetian Forts.
The Battle of Al Mukalla
Date: January 12th, 1520
Outcome: Indecisive Portuguese victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 4 large naus, 2 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 7 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 5 galeas, 2 caravels, 4 brigantines
The last part of the Initial Armada sails to the Venetian Port at Al Mukalla. Once there, as in the previous battles, the Portuguese forces began to deliver heavy cannon fire on the Fort. This mimicked the battle of Aden until the 6th hour, when the Portuguese ships refused to leave. This is when the commander of the Fort of Al Mukalla decided that the gates of the arsenale be opened and the allied naval force challenge the Portuguese head on. This move, however, was not as effective as in Aden due to the layout of the arsenale at this particular fort. Due to its position, just as the gates were being opened, the Portuguese got first hit opportunities as they were directly infront of the gates. The allied forces managed to inflict heavy damage to the already exhausted Portuguese fleet but in the end, many allied ships were bound to the confines of the arsenale due to the closeness of fighting to it. By the end of the battle early the next morning, both fleets were destroyed. The remaining allied fleet retreated back to the arsenale and the remaining Portuguese force sailed to Bahrain. The battle was very indecisive however, the Portugues can claim to be the “victors” only because damage to both fleets was equal and the Portuguese did damage to the arsenale and Fort at Al Mukalla.
February 1st, 1520: Francisco Pizzaro, mayor of Panama City (OTL’s conquistador of Peru), dies in Panama City after being stabbed to death by a man loyal to Vasco nunez de Balboa
February 8th, 1520: Commanders from Venice, the Ottoman Empire, and France convene at Jisan to discuss what went wrong at Al Mukalla. The meeting ends with the agreement of all attending powers to replenish the destroyed fleet.
The Battle of the Gulf of Aden
Date: February 22nd, 1520
Outcome: decisive Portuguese victory, annihilation of the Ottoman Al Mukalla replacement fleet
Combatants: Portugal vs. Ottoman Empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 4 gales
Ottomans: 3 galeas, 3 caravels, 6 brigantines
As the Ottoman replacement fleet for the recent defeated force at Al Mukalla sails midway into the Gulf of Aden, it is suddenly attacked by a strong Portuguese fleet. The Ottoman fleet is equipped solely of non-battle tried sailors whereas the Portugueses is made of the opposite. The battle does not last long, primarily because the greatness in naval power on the Portuguese side, and secondly, because ottoman sailors were wasting munitions and manpower due to careless shooting and cannon balls either ending up in the ocean or hitting friendly vessels (this does not happen in other battles because of the limited Ottoman presence on other allied battles. Usually the allied navy consists of mostly experienced Venetian or French sailors and a few ottomans to shoot muskets and help the Venetians/French). In the end, the Portuguese escape relatively unscathed while the Ottoman replacement force is destroyed.
February 23rd, 1520: the Portuguese force responsible for the defeat of the Ottomans sails to Al Mukalla, hoping to finish it off.
The siege of Al Mukalla
Date: February 29th, 1520 (began)
Outcome: Stalemate
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venetian Fort of Al Mukalla
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 5 caravels, 4 gales
Allies: 1 large carrack, 2 galeas, 1 caravel, 4 brigantines
Determining that the allies were destroyed at the previous battle in Al Mukalla, the Portuguese force that destroyed the ottomans sails to Al Mukalla. One there, they blockade the waters around the Fort and begin to lay siege to it. Both sides fire cannons but the Fort refuses to fall. After 2 hours, the Portuguese manage to make their way into the Fort’s arsenale. Once inside, the Portuguese men get off their ships and begin a manned assault on the fort. Just as the assault begins, it is apparent that the Portuguese have bitten of more than they can chew. Immediately, the massive allied force (mostly Ottoman, as they were the manpower of the war) achieves the upper hand and the Portuguese can’t seem to deliver a blow. Their remaining men retreat to their ships and sail into open waters. They continue to block the waters to the fort, but they have lost many men in the assault.
March 12th, 1520: French replacements arrive at Al Mukalla, along with their Venetian Counterparts. Just as they get in the vicinity, they immediately see the Portuguese blockade. They must attack.
The second Battle of Al Mukalla
Date: March 12th, 1520 (siege is lifted)
Outcome: Allied victory
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 3 large naus, 3 smaller naus, 4 caravels, 3 gales (minor damage on all Portuguese ships)
Allies: 7 large carracks, 6 galeas, 6 caravels, 7 brigantines
The allies and Portuguese both have fair warning of each others positions. The battle begins with hours long cannon fire. It is then followed by an allied lead, again, pushing the Portuguese against the Fort where they are rained down on by cannons. As hours progress, it is clear that the allies are back with a vengeance. Both sides have considerable losses but the allies are the clear winners. Al Mukalla is now guarded by a powerful force again as it was before, except this is now the most powerful naval fort of the 5 (Venetian built) Forts. The reason for this strongest naval presence is because all the other forts are in close proximity to another fort, excluding Al Mukalla.
March 20th, 1520: A legion of slave workers arrives to Al Mukalla from the port of Massawa. Due to the many slaves Venice can muster, repairs to the allied navy and Venetian Forts happen very quickly.
March 28th, 1520: Manuel I of Portugal gets news of his latest defeat. He is furious with this and his massive losses of men and naval power in the first half year of the war. He is running terribly low on Portuguese forces in Indian Ocean and quickly orders the replenishment of them.
Meanwhile, Loredan and Francis I of France meet in Paris to discuss matters. Loredan realizes that though his friendship with the Ottomans has been and still is exceptional in both monetary returns and power, there is too much difference between them and an ally ship between the two will eventually end in some way or another. Loredan sees that France can fill the void of the Ottomans and he works quickly to cement a close friendship with them. Loredan proposes a joint French-Venetian built Fort (belonging to Venice, however, but with large French presence). This fort will be built immediately and will be massive. It will act as a boundary to stop Portuguese vessels from replenishing the east. Francis takes a good liking toward Loredan but says he will think about it.
April 2nd, 1520: The commander at Goa has mustered all available naval power in the vicinity. It is not an exceptional force and suffers from relatively low numbers. This is due to a string of Portuguese losses in the Indian Ocean. He knows he could and should wait for more ships to arrive from Portugal but he is furious and excited to hit back at the allies. He decides to send the fleet to crush Massawa anyways.
The Battle of Massawa
Date: April 16th, 1520
Outcome: Stalemate
Combatants: Portugal vs. Venice, France, Ottoman empire
Strength: Portugal: 4 large naus, 5 smaller naus, 7 caravels, 8 gales
Allies: 5 large Carracks, 6 galeas, 5 caravels, 6 brigantines
The “large” fleet mustered by the commander at Goa arrives at Massawa. Marco Maranazzo is the one who first sights the fleet from his tower window. Maranazzo is ecstatic that his turn to beat the Portuguese has arrived. The battle initiates as all the others; Initial cannon fighting. After hours of ferocious fighting, the Venetian arsenale opens and the allied fleet is revealed. The two navies fought a hard battle which lead to no decisive winner. Both sides took heavy losses of men and minor losses of naval power but in the end, each navy parted. The allied force retreated to the arsenale and the Portuguese went south.
Afonso Avila, Commander of the Portuguese fleet noticed a week spot in the forts design. He noticed a space in the back of the fort, opened to Africa. Avila decides that a sneak attack from behind will allow a raid on the fort. He commands the fleet to sail a few miles south of the fort, dock, and have an army assemble. The army will then march on the fort. This will take place after 5 days rest. Estimated army strength for this assault: 2,000 men
April 18th, 1520: Just as the Portuguese have amassed on land and are now attending to their wounded after the battle, an Ethiopian coffee gatherer to the l’Africa Orientale Veneziana (Venetian East Africa. In this TL, it will be referred to as AOV), sees them and immediately recognizes the flag. The man has been into the Fort at Massawa many times and recognizes that the Portuguese are an enemy of his colonial master, Venice. He quickly hops on a horse and darts to Massawa.
Later on that night… The man gains an audience with Marco Maranazzo, Commander of the Fort of Massawa. He tells Maranazzo of the Portuguese force. Maranazzo is thrilled by this development. He realizes that the Portuguese must have seen the unorthodox back of his fort and are going to attack from there. Maranazzo wastes no time in gathering up his Nubian Guard.
April 19th, 1520: Maranazzo’s Nubian Guard is now ready to march. Its force numbers 10,000 armed black infantry men with an armed cavalry numbering 3,000. They Depart from Massawa after pledging allegiance to Venice and chanting an Our Father.
As the sun was beginning to set, Maranazzo and his Nubian Guard come face to face with the Portuguese. The latter group sees this odd looking force and doesn’t know what to think. Though they have many wounded men, the Portuguese are sure that their fearsome army can handle a few inferior Africans. The Portuguese gather into their battle formations and both sides are ready to strike. The battle began with an exchange of artillery and musket fire. Afonso Avila, in command of his force, ordered an attack on the Nubian Guard’s Center. As this happened, Maranazzo ordered his powerful cavalry to attack the weakened and dispersed Portuguese lines, sweeping away any Portuguese horses and many men. A general rout followed. The Venetian Nubian Guard lost 800 men whereas the Portuguese Force was decimated. In following days, the Venetians took all the docked Portuguese ships (as the remaining Portuguese gave up without a fight) and claimed them as their own. The Portuguese force in the Indian Ocean is now defeated and until reinforcements arrive, the Portuguese east lies defenceless against an allied offensive.
Hah, yea, i thought it would be a nice slap to the face of Portugal and it aids the Venetian Cause alot. peace terms... thats going to be fun
I think that, in this scenario, a venetian colonization of Carribean and/or North America may be possible.
HOOAH!
Go Venezia! May the Tierra di San Marco stretch ever larger!
I'm surprised that more people don't make Venetian scenarios.
Well done so far, keep it up!
haha Thank You!! Askelion i was goingto send you a private message to read my thread when i saw that Jimbrock sent you a message about his, im glad you have already made your way to and enjoyed it
help and suggestions always wantedVenetian Carribean/ North america
This is a large matter of discussion in this TL and currently i have 6 sources of whom i am getting mixed opinions on if it can or cannot happen. I urge anyone with any idea on the subject who is reading this to post your opinion on this matter! Your help is greatly appreciated (and right now, needed)!
A few things to think about when answering: Venice has a lot of disposable income. By the time the war with Portugal is over, Venice will (at least) have a few-many-all of Portugal's outposts in the Indian Ocean. With the opening of the Ptolemaic channel (though time consumoing) Venice can get into any ocean without using the straight of Gibraltar! This has been the biggest issue facing the colonization of the new world and no one seems to remember about the AH route! any other questions you may have, just ask
Post away! lets get a discussion/ debate started!!
This is a large matter of discussion in this TL and currently i have 6 sources of whom i am getting mixed opinions on if it can or cannot happen. I urge anyone with any idea on the subject who is reading this to post your opinion on this matter! Your help is greatly appreciated (and right now, needed
)!A few things to think about when answering: Venice has a lot of disposable income. By the time the war with Portugal is over, Venice will (at least) have a few-many-all of Portugal's outposts in the Indian Ocean. With the opening of the Ptolemaic channel (though time consumoing) Venice can get into any ocean without using the straight of Gibraltar! This has been the biggest issue facing the colonization of the new world and no one seems to remember about the AH route! any other questions you may have, just ask
Post away! lets get a discussion/ debate started!!
The problem for every mediterrean country to get any kind of possessions in the Caribbean, or in any other part of the Americas, is to mantain a stable link with the settlements once established. This can be achieved only with a direct access to the Atlantic and a good navy. Now, Spain and Portugal are in the geographical position to cut off the atlantic access to Venice simply blockading Gibraltar strait, while their fleets stormed the new colonies. Venice could have got some settlements in the new world, but they could have been kept only with Spain's, and later Great Britain's, bless.
Besides in this scenario, Venice is already busy as hell to settle outpost up in nearly all the lands touched by the indian ocean. I really can't see why they should waste money and men in the Americas.
oooh, good point. Venice IS going to need every piece of manpower it can get to this (btw with the new close relationship Venice and France will share, French settlers can also aid in Venetian Colonization) but still, not gonna be in huge numbers.
Bumping.
I have been PMing and used up all my good comments so there is not much more to say.
Will be watching to see how this develops.
I have been PMing and used up all my good comments so there is not much more to say.
Will be watching to see how this develops.
I agree with you! Venezia deve per forza appoggiarsi, per un'eventuale espansione a ovest, almeno a una delle tre potenze dell'Atlantico (Spagna, Francia o Inghilterra).
Naturalmente l'alleanza con una delle tre potenze avrà forti ripercuzzioni in materia religiosa. Ad esempio con alleata la Spagna, e giocoforza anche l'Austria, Venezia dovrà avere una posizione filopapalina e seguire una politica controriformistica. Con l'Inghilterra alleata, Venezia entrerà a fianco dei protestanti (vedere la figura di Paolo Sarpi e dell'Interdetto).
Dear Cornelius.
I hope You will understand my message in Italian language.
Capirà, perché lui è uno di noi! (Italiano)!
I wouldnt be surprised if we got into a 'Avanti Patria' nationalistic type of side convo now. Youve doomed us all.
I think Venice's already pissed the Pope quite a lot by allying with the Ottomans. Allying with England shouldnt have much of a religious effect.
I wouldnt be surprised if we got into a 'Avanti Patria' nationalistic type of side convo now. Youve doomed us all.
haha yes!
I think Venice's already pissed the Pope quite a lot by allying with the Ottomans. Allying with England shouldnt have much of a religious effect.
Very true, at least the protestant are Christian.... Even though it was a warlike state between the 2 religions (Catholicism and Protestantism)
Interesting twist. With Venice gaining at least claims on Brazil, they can be in a position to conquer Peru, which the Spaniards didn't grab IOTL until 1530s. Peru can serve as an enormous cash cow, fueling Venetian colonization and conquest everywhere else.
BTW: Did the butterflies destroy Hernan Cortes, or is he still kicking Aztec butt ITTL?
Oh, and one more thing. To take control of the straits of Gibraltar, you only need to control the immediate area of the straits, meaning the rock of Gibraltar, the inlet to the west, and the land to the west to the Atlantic, along with perhaps a few miles of territory on the South side. Shove a naval base, a fleet, and several forts in there, with giant cannons, and you can keep Spanish and Portugese fleets out.
Give the man a prize, Peru's mineral reserves and potential cash flow is exactly the reason Pizarro had to die. But i dont know about colonizing from brazil- Peru. More like the Indian Ocean to Peru
and now, since Pizzaro is dead, Spain will not have as much ambition to go south, giving Venice a larger Timeline to claim it instead of doing so by the 1530's. NO, unfortunately Cortez is still doing his great works. I realized it too late 
Alex Richards
Donor
Here's a thought, how lavish are the Palaces, Churches, Public spaces and buildings of Venice going to be in this Timeline! I would also advocate that the ruler of Venice decides in the early 1800s that building work must be in keeping with the historic image of the city, and that industry isn't allowed on the Laguna itself.
Apart from that, Keep up the good work.
Apart from that, Keep up the good work.
Il mondo è Venezia, e Venezia è il mondo.