Venice as an Ottoman Vassal

[Askelion]

Who's up for some brainstorming?

Recently as I was browsing the forums, I stumbled on a thread discussing an Ottoman Victory at Vienna in the 16th century. In that thread, the question of Turkish control of the Mediterranean came up and it was noted that Venice would have to be dealt with. Obviously a naval war would be very difficult on both sides of the coin, and a land invasion of the lagoon is still nearly impossible for the next two or three centuries (until Napoleon made it slightly less impossible OTL )

So what if the Ottomans extended an arm of alliance to Venice at the point of the bayonet? Both Empires had been having constant difficulties with the Hapsburgs, Portuguese, and other Italians, so it is not beyond reason that they could find common ground. With a joint Veneto-Ottoman fleet, the Mediterranean would be in absolute control of the Porte, Venice would maintain its Thalassocracy, and Ottoman and Venetian traders would have the opportunity to fight the Iberian commercial stranglehold.

So, let's talk about it! I am very interested in working on a TL regarding this issue (as seen in my sig) since the Ottoman and Venetian Empires are two of my favorite historical subjects.

PODs? Facts? Plausibility? Issues? Debate?
All are both welcome and appreciated!

Thanks as always for your participation!

 

[Badshah]

Well, with Venice as a vassal, you would possibly see a better Ottoman Navy.

 

[Unconsensual]

& be excommunicated by a Papacy that already hates them. As a result all Venetian property outside of Venice is forfeit and trade from the east now goes to Genoa or Gorzs or w/e. There's also the problems of Cyprus, Crete, and Corfu; all strategic points that Venice would not give up that the Ottomans wanted.

But if you wanted something like a truce of a few months while they fought their separate enemies that's definitely possible if frowned upon by the rest of Europe.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

Vassalage is very different from an alliance. I don't see the former as being very plausible. Even in the face of possible annihilation, several times in its earlier history, the Serenissima never offered to bend the knee, until Napoleon. The latter, seems more possible with many caveats.

 

[Unconsensual]

Vassalage is very different from an alliance. I don't see the former as being very plausible. Even in the face of possible annihilation, several times in its earlier history, the Serenissima never offered to bend the knee, until Napoleon. The latter, seems more possible with many caveats.

Yeah if there's one thing about the Venetians, is that they were cocky as hell.

But on a separate note is it possible for Venice to be the capital of Italy? Being the capital would probably prevent the lagoon from being drained for the chemical industry, among others it would keep Venetians cocky.

 

[Askelion]

Vassalage is very different from an alliance. I don't see the former as being very plausible. Even in the face of possible annihilation, several times in its earlier history, the Serenissima never offered to bend the knee, until Napoleon. The latter, seems more possible with many caveats.

Good point. I should adjust my terminology. I meant more of a very lopsided alliance. Venice runs the sea, the Sultan runs the land.
As for the papacy, Venice & it's patriarch consistently chose their own Republic and church over the Pope, so there's nothing preventing a schism.

Still, I'm just enjoying the discussion.

 

[Herzen's love-child]

Venice always operated in its own interests and would ally with the devil if it served them----but only as long as it served those interests. Zounds! The Republic later allied with the very pope that had spearheaded an earlier war against Venice. Realpolitik --& they were masters of it for close to a millennium.

Nah, Venice wouldn't become schismatics. Even if excommunicated they would just go on as if it never happened.

 

[Askelion]

Venice always operated in its own interests and would ally with the devil if it served them----but only as long as it served those interests. Zounds! The Republic later allied with the very pope that had spearheaded an earlier war against Venice. Realpolitik --& they were masters of it for close to a millennium.

Nah, Venice wouldn't become schismatics. Even if excommunicated they would just go on as if it never happened.

You are quite correct sir on both points. They never let an excommunication or two keep them from being good catholics

Regarding discussion, perhaps we should also include the implications of an Ottoman Venice in general. How might it happen? What are the implications of the Turks having access to the Arsenal?

 

[Minchandre]

Nah, Venice wouldn't become schismatics. Even if excommunicated they would just go on as if it never happened.

Very true. On the occasions (and there were more than one) that the Doge was excommunicated, the priests usually just continued giving communion as though nothing had happened.

 

[Unconsensual]

Very true. On the occasions (and there were more than one) that the Doge was excommunicated, the priests usually just continued giving communion as though nothing had happened.

I like to mention again that every time they were excommunicated they couldn't trade with the rest of Europe and that their neighbors used it as a holy seal of approval to confiscate Venetian property. It still hurt Venice and it wasn't something they could keep up for long.