Vedic Aryan Eurasia

While in our timeline Vedas are usually associated with Hinduism in this alternate timeline the vedic Aryans donot migrate down to the Indian subcontinent but instead stay put in central Asia and expand into the central steppes and latter into the pontic Steppes. The Aryans latter Aryanize their neighbouring ethnic groups including the eastern Slavs which in our time line was the exact opposite


Introduction and historical background

In our timeline (otl) the cradle of indo Iranian culture being The Bactrian Margiana culture or bronze age Oxus civilization(BAMC)which lasted from 2300-1700 BC located in modern day northern Afghanistan , southern Turkmenistan, parts of Uzbekistan which latter spread to inlcude large parts of present day northern iran and most of mordern day afghanistan .There is evidence to suggest that the farming settlement of these region had a common culture as evidenced by pottery ,jewelry etc indicating that there was interaction between diffrent settlement.The culture was quite advanced for its time ,the people of this culture parctised settled agriculture and had knowledge of extensive irrigation but the main occupation of the people was pastorialism but was gradually replaced by agriculture. It is believed that the capital of this culture was situated in mordern day gonur the evidence in this regrad is the excavation of large fortifications and temples and palaces.There are signs of proto urbanization were also noticed in excavations and it is belived that urbanization preaked around 2000bc .The people of this culture traded with the people of Indus valley civilization and trade it is believed was extensive as a lot Indus valley seals and ivory was found . The people of this culture also traded with people as far as the Elamite kingdoms in mordern day Iran.They also had good knowledge of metal and metallurgy .Horses ,camel, cows were domesticated and the people had knowledge of chariots.
The culture in and around 2000 BC came into contact with the andronovo culture to its north .The Andronovo culture was nomadic but after contacts with BAMC The people of this culture began to practice settled agriculture particularly around the delta of river amu Darya and this sub culture was named tazabagyab sub culture. There is evidence to indicate that the andronovo culture influenced the BAMC as the Pottery of that culture was found along side the pottery of BAMC and in the course of time the pottery found had a synthesis of both the culture. Further evidence of the fusion of culture is found in the kurgan of highland of Bactria .
Mordern day archeologist are convinced that the BAMC is related to the indo Iranian people and that the people of this culture went of to form the cultures in indian subcontinent and Iran respectively. While there is disagreement as to how the culture became indo Iranian. Arguments put forward by Soviet archeologist sarianidi proposes that the inhabitants of this culture were indo Iranian in origin but arguments put forward by other archeologists which is more acceptable to the wider archeological community is that the culture was initially started by neolithic farmers and was subsequently indo Iranianized by the andronovo culture to its north .Whatever the origin its accepted that proto indo Iranian culture originated in this area as the tribes of andronovo moved south into the Oxus civilization
The BAMC suddenly disappeared in the late bronze age and in its place yaz culture came up in 1300 BC during the early iron age .The people of yaz culture followed the early Zoroastrianism .This time gap of nearly 500 years suggest that a large scale migration took place and it corresponds to the time period in which the indo Iranian people moved to Iran and India respectively.

The story begins
This alternate history exercise aims to explore the course of events which would take place had the vedic indo Aryans stayed put in central Asia instead of moving into the subcontinent of south Asia .In this time line all indo Iranian people move out of central Asia including the non Vedic indo Aryans into Iran and the indian subcontinent.The vedic indo Aryans who in this time line will be referred to as vedic Aryans remain in central Asia and use the knowledge of the BAMC which they have absorbed to start up a civilization in central Asia
The reason why as to why Vedic Aryans stayed put in central Asia can be attributed to a point of difference in this timeline . In our time line the indus valley civilization collapsed due to a lot of catastrophic events caused by change in the course of the river Indus and the deflection of monsoon rains . The civilization decended into civil war and a lot of people died ,cities and villages were abandoned as a result and most of its fromers residents moved east into the gangetic river valley. This climatic change also had impact in central Asia as it caused indo Iranian people to move out of central Asia during the late bronze age with the vedic indo Aryans coming into the subcontinent and settled down in modern day Sindh and Punjab province of Pakistan from where they expanded to the rest of India by 500 BC .

In this time line the indus valley civilization survived in a much better shape by adopting to the change , though de population does occur but not in the massive scales as we see in our time line ,this may be due to the strong central authority that prevented the civilization from decending into civil war and by solving most of their problems by expanding into the gangetic river valley to relieve the massive population pressure on land . With no free land available in iran as it is occupied by their cousins and with the prospect of facing a formidable opponent in the south Asia the vedic Aryans decided to stay put in central Asia .

Another major point of difference is that vedic Aryans in this timeline are more of settled agriculturist rather than being pastorialist as they were in our time line .The vedic Aryans had knowledge of agriculture and irrigation from oxus river valley civilization and so in this time line settlement and proto urbanization takes place around amu Darya and syr Darya where the vedic Aryans practice settled agriculture and the Fergana valley along with the river valley of amu darya andasyr darya becoming the cradle of vedic Aryan faith
Outside these river valley the vedic Aryans practiced pastorialism . There were sings of proto urbanization along the river and in the Fergana valley.By 1200 BC the civilization extended from the Pamir mountains to the banks of the Caspian sea .
The vedic Aryans did face threats from other tribes some of whom were other indo Iranian people while the rest were other people groups including indo European tribes to the north but the threats were not significant and most of them were absorbed by the vedic Aryan tribes.
The various vedic Aryan tribes did not expand further north for quite some time due to the dry climate of the central steppe caused due to the dry period of 2nd millenium bc which caused the movement of the indo iranian people from the central steppes into central Asia . The period from 1800 to 1000 BC was characterized by population growth and development of Vedas and other aspects of vedic relegion .
Trade was conducted along this area which brought much needed revenue to the vedic Aryans.
By 1000 BC the vedic Aryans had consolidated their lands south of syr Darya and they began to expand into mordern day kazakhstan and the central steppes . Settlements were formed in and around the many lakes and rivers of Kazakhstan . It was during this time that The vedic Aryans began to encounter other indo Iranian peoples who in our time line were called Scythians by the Greeks or sakas by the Iranians .These were actually a collection of diffrent groups of indo Iranian peoples .The Scythians in our time line were the first nomadic empire in central Asia .They also played an important role in the politics of middle East . The scythians had controled the medes for a brief period of 20 years and they also played a crucial role in the destruction of the neo Assyrian empire .The western Branch of the scythians well came in conflict with the greeks and were defeated by the Macedonians in fourth century BC and were finally conquered by sarmatians . While not many details are known about the various sakas ,it is however clear that they were composed of many tribes one of which formed the indo Scythian empire .
In this time line the expansion of vedic Aryan and scythians will inevitably lead to wars and conflicts and while Scythians established their domination over central Asia by 600 BC in this time line it will be the vedic Aryans who defeat the sakas and assimilate the various Scythian tribes into the vedic Aryan fold. While some of the Scythians did settle down to become settled farmers in the vast the central steppes there were many who remained nomadic in the vast Steppes of the central steppes as well as the pontic Steppes . With the defeat of the Scythians the vedic Aryans entered what we call the pontic Steppes where they encountered the Cimmerians who occupied the fringe of the pontic Steppes .The cimmerians have moved to the region to avoid the conflicts between the scythians and vedic Aryans . The Cimmerians too are incorporated into the vedic Aryan fold but a large number of them migrate to Thrace and Cappadocia.

The vedic Aryans as a result have control territory which in our time line would include ukraine, Volga Russia,southern Russia ,the greater cacusaian mountain, the whole of central steppes, southern Kazakhstan , Uzbekistan and the whole of the Fergana valley
 
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It's a work in progress I'll update it on regular basis . Each stage of development of vedic Aryans will be covered in the areas of governance, science, religion, society and other important aspect.
This exercise will also include the impact which a strong central Asian empire has on events in the ancient world and beyond
 
What do you mean by Vedic? I always understood that the Vedas arose out of the interaction between Indo Iranian pastrolist from Central Asia and the remnants of the Indus Valley civilization. As you may know, genetics has shown that Iranic pastrolist interacted heavily with the BMAC civilization and then moved on to the Iranian plateau, where modern Iranians show a mixture of Steppe, BMAC and Iranian agriculturist DNA. You also alluded to the fact that the BMAC civilization had signs of being proto Zoroastrian, and this spread with the Medes, Persians and Bactrians. It seems that Indo Aryan speakers completely avoided BMAC and moved into the Indus Valley, and Mesopotamia (Mitanni). So, if the Indo Aryans stuck around and interacted more with BMAC they probably would also be Mazda worshipers and not Vedic.
 
Well it depends on which Vedas are you talking about . As you know there are four Vedas the earliest being the rig Veda then comes yajur Veda ,Sama Veda and Atharva Veda. Rig Veda is mostly refers to places and customs which were observed and followed outside the indian subcontinent and does not show any evidence of interaction with people of the subcontinent. Rig Vedas were penned down during 1500 BC or prior at a time when the vedic indo Aryans were mostly living in mordern day afghanistan and eastern Iran and some of them made it to present day Punjab . The core ideas of rig Veda did not develop with interaction with the remnants of indus valley civilization as it's literature does not make any reference to the land beyond the Punjab but does make reference to rivers of Afghanistan eg river saraswathi, a river which also makes a reference in the avestan but by what name i cannot recollect and the core of the rig Vedas were developed as far back as 2000 BC so rig Veda is a mid to late bronze age work .at which time the indo Aryans recided in central Asia
Further this alternate history doesn't mean that eurasian people follow Vedas as we know it (iie hindu)what I mean to say was eurasia dominated by Aryans who went on to develop the Vedas which is influenced by the ideas and values of other central Asian tribes but with the same core of the rig Veda of our time line
Its true's that latter Vedas were influenced by the indus valley civilization and other ideas of the subcontinent. But the rig Veda uses words which are very similar to the early avestan language and shared similar but. Not same ideas because mazdayasna was inclined towards conservative ideas whereas rig Vedas was more polytheistic and liberal making rig vedas a indo Iranian influenced work
So the answer is yes vedas other than rig Veda are purely indian but rig Veda well it's mostly not indian subcontinent in our time line
 
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Well the oxus river valley civilization influenced both the Iranians aswell as the indo Aryans
The indo Aryans were the first wave of indo iranian migrants who left the BAMC to cross the Hindu Kush mountains then the Khyber pass then into the indus river valley where they arrived there some where around 1500 BC
Second wave were the Iranian people who moved to Iran
No I didn't not say BAMC was influenced by proto Zoroastrian ideas .what I said was Yaz culture which sprang up during the iron age at a place near the BAMC allegedly followed proto Zoroastrian ideas because of lack of burial sites which indicates that the culture may have followed sky burial which is a Zoroastrian practice . BAMC was present during the middle bronze age and disappeared during the late bronze age .The two culture may be related but BAMC culture showed proto indo Iranian religion not proto avestan and there is a gap of more than 500 years between the two culture and my pod is that Iranians of the indo Iranian peoples move to Iran while the vedic Aryans remain and in such a scenario yaz culture may not develop as it will absorbed by the vedic Aryans
Further zoroasterinism developed only during 9th century BC and became popular in 6 the century BC .prior to the rise of mazdayasna Iranian people were polytheistic so it's possible that people of yaz 1 culture did not worship Ahura Mazda besides mazdayasna developed in plateau of Iran not in Fergana valley
 
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Well the word Veda means sacred knowledge its origin is from proto indo Iranian language which eventually developed into sanskrit
Vedic Aryans are the Aryans who composed the Vedas and the word vedic is used as a prefix to differentiate other indo Aryans who migrated to India but didn't compose the Vedas so it doesn't mean all indo Aryans who crossed the indus are vedic Aryans infact the vedic Aryans saw other indo Aryans as the ememy and called them asuras in the rig veda
The earliest vedas known as rig Vedas core concepts were developed as far back as 2000 BC way before the vedic Aryans set foot in India so it is possible to develop vedas from the core concepts but with central Asian influence rather than of indian subcontinent and still call it vedas as I said vedas doesn't mean a name of a tribe
 
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Albert.Nik

Banned
Central Asia was more or less Nomadic with Scythians and such. Coming to Indo-Aryans,they split into two groups,one going to the Levant and other to India.
Now entire Indo-Aryans staying in Central Asia would make it very crowded prodding a lot of people to move West or East or even South. How could that large number stay there without advanced technology? Or they need to discover some technology that could help them. They would most probably invade Europe and India when they would go through upheavels and till then,maintain City states and smaller empires or maybe even a large Empire in the Central Asia.
If a Roman like empire is established by the Aryans in Central Asia,then India would inevitably see what Anatolia had. Settlement and the 'Romanization' of the region until it's identical. Could such an empire go into the Altai regions and Mongolia,etc and 'Romanize' them too?
 
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