VALOIS and LANCASTER Survival TL

VALOIS and LANCASTER Survival TL
POD
John, Prince of Girona does not die and successfuly manages to claim the throne of Aragon but was successful and his soldiers killed Ferdinand of Aragon and his father.

Charles the Bold does not die and had his daughter Mary of Burgundy marry Nicolas of Anjou, he has a son with Margaret of York named Philip after the father of Charles the Bold, Margaret of York bears a child named Philip in 1475.

Edward of Westminister marries Isabelle of Castille in 1462 and loses his claim to the throne of England but he also has a claim on the throne of Aragon and Gascony.

Note:

The Bourbons inherit the throne because the remaining Valois were not interested to inherit the French throne.
 
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kasumigenx said:
The Bourbons inherit the throne because the remaining Valois were not interested to inherit the French throne.

Wait. What? Whoa! Hold your horse, man!

The Valois? Not interested on the French throne? You're kidding right?
France was one of the most prestigious, richest and strongest kingdom in the Middle Age. Why do you think it had a successoral war that lasted more than Hundread Years? It wasn't only because Edward III had a claim : the prestige of the French Crown, the richess of that Kingdom as well as the fact it was considered the strongest Kingdom of the time played a part in that.

Why would the Valois refuse the French throne in those conditions? Besides, with Salic Law, the Bourbons have far less chances against the Valois.
 
Wait. What? Whoa! Hold your horse, man!

The Valois? Not interested on the French throne? You're kidding right?
France was one of the most prestigious, richest and strongest kingdom in the Middle Age. Why do you think it had a successoral war that lasted more than Hundread Years? It wasn't only because Edward III had a claim : the prestige of the French Crown, the richess of that Kingdom as well as the fact it was considered the strongest Kingdom of the time played a part in that.

Why would the Valois refuse the French throne in those conditions? Besides, with Salic Law, the Bourbons have far less chances against the Valois.

The main line of Valois died out and the Valois-Aragon(Anjou) and Valois-Burgundy survived in this TL but they were interested in Kingdom building so they refused but not just that they were also barred from the line of succession.
 
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There's a number of problems I see with this, if I may. I will list them:

Edward of Westminister marries Isabelle of Castille in 1462 and loses his claim to the throne of England but he also has a claim on the throne of Aragon and Gascony.

Edward of Westminster (not Westminister, count the I's) was son of Henry VI. There should be no reason for him ever to lose his claim to the English throne. Even if his father is deposed as OTL he still has a claim to the English throne by saying "my father should never have been taken off the throne".

On another note, why exactly does he have a claim to Aragon of all places?

The main line of Valois died out and the Valois-Aragon(Anjou) and Valois-Burgundy survived in this TL but they were interested in Kingdom building so they refused

I...don't understand. They were interested in Kingdom building but didn't want the throne? What Kingdom building is possible without being King? And why would anyone not instantly throw away their previous life to take up the chance of being King of France. Honestly, the French throne should be a powerful enough incentive that there's no treasure in all the world that can persuade any man not to want the Kingdom.

but not just that they were also barred from the line of succession.

They were barred from succession? How does that work? You can't just declare some families ineligible if they have a legitimate claim, and if you try, usually the result is those families actually becoming more proactive against you and more willing to attempt to seize the throne.
 
There's a number of problems I see with this, if I may. I will list them:



Edward of Westminster (not Westminister, count the I's) was son of Henry VI. There should be no reason for him ever to lose his claim to the English throne. Even if his father is deposed as OTL he still has a claim to the English throne by saying "my father should never have been taken off the throne".

On another note, why exactly does he have a claim to Aragon of all places?

He takes the role that Ferdinand of Aragon does not fulfill, he will also attempt to seize the English throne but he will be unsuccessful, his descendants are even unsuccessful in getting the throne, the Bourbons were able to almost recreate the Angevin Empire but after that they become the Kings of France because they were very militarily capable.

I...don't understand. They were interested in Kingdom building but didn't want the throne? What Kingdom building is possible without being King? And why would anyone not instantly throw away their previous life to take up the chance of being King of France. Honestly, the French throne should be a powerful enough incentive that there's no treasure in all the world that can persuade any man not to want the Kingdom.

I will fix this, I will remove the treaty barring them from succession in this TL but just that the Valois-Aragon and Valois-Burgundy were uninterested in the French throne.
 
I will fix this, I will remove the treaty barring them from succession in this TL but just that the Valois-Aragon and Valois-Burgundy were uninterested in the French throne.

Sorry, but I simply can't buy it. France was the most prestigious, richest and military strong kingdom of the Europe at that time. No one would simply "not be interested in it". Also, even if the succession is by some miracle skipped to someone with a lesser claim, than this new king would always feel threatened by those who were "not interested" before, but might become later (or his descendendants). He would do everything possible to eliminate them from the face of Earth in order to secure his throne.
 
He takes the role that Ferdinand of Aragon does not fulfill, he will also attempt to seize the English throne but he will be unsuccessful, his descendants are even unsuccessful in getting the throne, the Bourbons were able to almost recreate the Angevin Empire but after that they become the Kings of France because they were very militarily capable.



I will fix this, I will remove the treaty barring them from succession in this TL but just that the Valois-Aragon and Valois-Burgundy were uninterested in the French throne.

Perhaps I will just have the main line of the Valois survive and stay on the throne.
 
Sorry, but I simply can't buy it. France was the most prestigious, richest and military strong kingdom of the Europe at that time. No one would simply "not be interested in it". Also, even if the succession is by some miracle skipped to someone with a lesser claim, than this new king would always feel threatened by those who were "not interested" before, but might become later (or his descendendants). He would do everything possible to eliminate them from the face of Earth in order to secure his throne.

I agree, maybe the houses Valois-Burgundy and Valois-Aragon/Anjou won't unite their domains. By which I mean that the eldest son becomes king of France and a younger son inherits 'Burgundy' or Aragon/Anjou. Although even that seems not likely.
 
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VALOIS and LANCASTER Survival TL

EUROPE

John, Prince of Girona does not die and successfuly manages to claim the throne of Aragon but was successful and his soldiers killed Ferdinand of Aragon and his father.

Edward of Westminister marries Isabella of Castille in 1467 and loses his claim to the throne of England but he also has a claim on the throne of Aragon and Gascony their first child is Isabelle in 1468 and later in 1472 a child named George(Jorge) was born.

Edward of Westminister and Isabella decide to get rid of Joanna of Castille by marrying her to Edward of Middleham, who becomes the King of England and the two bear a son named William

Charles the Bold does not die and had his daughter Mary of Burgundy marry Nicolas of Aragon, he has a son with Margaret of York named Philip after the father of Charles the Bold, Margaret of York bears a child named Philip in 1475, Mary of Burgundy has a son with Nicolas of Anjou named Anthony who was betrothed to a certain Paterno woman from Sicily named Maria Antonia in order to give their claim to Sicily more legitimate in 1480 and they also had a child named Marie of Anjou, Charles the Bold and Nicolas of Anjou raided their respective claims in the Crown territory of France although Nicolas of Anjou was able to occupy Languedoc and Charles the Bold were able to occupy Champagne, the Spider King wanted to exclude them from the succession from the French throne so he made a treaty of Paris a year before he died
where in Nicolas of Aragon gets the parts of Languedoc near Rhone such as Gevaudan, Montpellier and Vivares but not the western Languedoc and Charles the Bold get the eastern viscounties of Champagne in 1482

King Edward I and Isabella decide to war with Granada to End the reconquista which they were victorious and were able to kick the Al Nasir out of Iberia but there was another problem, the iberian lands of Nicolas of Aragon, they attack Catalonia and claim it including Rousillon, which Nicolas loses because of the lack of land connection between Catalonia and Provence and they also tried to claim Bearn, Labourd and Navarre which they were successful, Francis Phoebus of Foix was only able to claim Foix.

In the meantime Maximilian I of HRE marries Anne of Brittany in 1489 which agitates Charles VIII, and Charles VIII marries Isabelle in 1490 and Anne of France marries George(Jorge) Plantagenet as a settlement of France with Spain because of the invasion of Labourd and Joanne, Duke of Berry goes to a convent and becomes a nun, Marie of Anjou with Anjou as her dowry marries Francis Phoebus of Navarre, Catherine of Foix is married to Peter the Duke of Bourbon and Anthony Valois had also already married Maria Antonia Paterno in 1483., Isabella and Edward decide to sponsor Christopher Colombus’s journey to India in 1492.
 
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