V1s vs Normandy

The Saint

Banned
Vi launches started on June 12, a week after D Day. WI the Germans had fired all their Calais V1s into the Normandy invasion area instead of at London? Could they have done some damage or even panic? I think that the v-1s would have had a major impact upon the landing areas. Books like Max Hastings' Overlord state that the rear area was full of supplies and provided tempting targets for V1s. Use the buzz bombs against the beachhead and attacks like Cobra and Epsom might have been delayed. An opportunity lost for the Germans?
 

Blaine Hess

Banned
Might have delayed the inevitable but thats about it.

Lets say a V1 plants itself in a supply depot. Maybe it slows thing down a bit. But the US would have more than sufficient replacement stuff in the UK. Heavy casualties? Again not that big a deal. With censorship, I doubt the public would know and V1s arent going to kill enough soldiers to meaningfully impact the battlefield.

Heres an interesting angle on this though. What if the V1s are enough of a nuissance, they compel the Allies to commit resources? Maybe major airstrikes to damage the launch sites?
 
I'd have to know more about 1) the accuracy of V1s (if you aim at a city like London, you'll always hit a target, but what about the beaches of Normandy?) and 2) the strength. How much can a V1 destroy? A house? A block?
 

Redbeard

Banned
The V1 could hit a target at the size of London and was TOTALLY unsuited against anything like a field target. If firing say 1000 V1 at the beaches I guess 90% would fall outside the battlefield and of the rest most would fall in German occupied territory. That leaves max 50 bombs falling over a huge area. My guesstimate would be a total effect of 5 killed and 127 wounded.

I doubt the Germans could fire 1000 bombs in one strike though, and after the first launches fighters will shoot down a lot and bombers strike the launch sites.

Any bomber could do much better and bombers even had very limited effect on battefield targets.

The V1 and especially V2 were not without effect on the civilian poulation in England though - from what I understand they were much closer to breaking morale than the bomber blitz 40-41 had ever been.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
A better idea would have been to aim them at Portsmouth Harbor, cramped as it was with warships and troop transports. It was a large enough target (i.e. the size of a city) that the chances of hitting serious targets was reasonably good.
 
It's alive!:p
A better idea would have been to aim them at Portsmouth Harbor, cramped as it was with warships and troop transports. It was a large enough target (i.e. the size of a city) that the chances of hitting serious targets was reasonably good.
I thought so too, but I've read (Longmate?) saying V-1 accuracy was too low for that to do much damage, either. Hitting the beaches? No way. You might get 10:1000 actually hitting any beach at all, with the rest inland or in the Channel. Yeah, they'd be a nuisance, but not a problem.

Actually, they might encourage earlier set up of fighter bases in the lodgement area, something Monty was rather slow to do (despite his promises). Done early enough, this could have interesting effects on later ops. An airborne drop into the Scheldt Estuary? A second drop at Arnhem? (If clearing the Scheldt doesn't make it moot, which it would IMO...)
 
From what I've read, the V-1 accuracy was said to be 13km CEP but this is maximum range against unsurvyed target area. If Germans can to test launches from say 50 km away and use initial shots to correct fire, then accuracy could have been quite good.

To give an example V-2 was said to have CEP of 17km at maximum range against an unsurvyed target but about 4.5 km CEP vs a survyed target. A CEP of 17km means 50% of warheads land within 900 km² area and all land within 6615 km².

A CEP of only 4.5 km means 50% of all warheads should land within ~ 64km² while all should land within 463km².

So the V-1 against surveyed target should be around 3.25 CEP @ maximum range [~ 200km] At 100 km range The CEP should be 1/2 this or 1.6km and at 50km it should be ~ 800m. In that case 50% of all warheads should land within a 2km² area.

Any one know how much surface area a ton of warhead can damage?

But this is still very difficult to pull off. V-1 had to launch from concret pads and would quickly be targeted by allied air superiorty. Still while they were launching they could be effective. I thought at this time in the war the most they could launched was a dozen or two a day ?
 
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So the V-1 against surveyed target should be around 3.25 CEP @ maximum range [~ 200km] At 100 km range The CEP should be 1/2 this or 1.6km and at 50km it should be ~ 800m. In that case 50% of all warheads should land within a 2km² area.
Huh. I'd be interested in knowing your source. (Not that I doubt it, just curious.)
But this is still very difficult to pull off. V-1 had to launch from concret pads and would quickly be targeted by allied air superiorty.
Actually not. You probably know they were tested from under He-111s. Why pads were used, I've never understood, since IMO the sensible thing would've been strap-on RATO bottles on rails in the backs of halftracks or on old Pz1s.
 
The allies diverted a lot of resources to defend London, heavy AA guns, proximity fused shells, mobile targeting radar, the fastest fighter aircraft and priority for bombing attacks on launch sites. If all of that kit had been available for the battles in Normandy what effect would that have had? I personally think the greatest effect of the V 1 offensive on Britain was to divert all of that effort away from other theaters of operation.
 
Given the allied Air superiority over the normandy beaches, it's unlikely any V1 would have reached the beaches without beeing shot down first. Unless launched at night, maybe.
 
From what I've read, the V-1 accuracy was said to be 13km CEP but this is maximum range against unsurvyed target area. If Germans can to test launches from say 50 km away and use initial shots to correct fire, then accuracy could have been quite good.

To give an example V-2 was said to have CEP of 17km at maximum range against an unsurvyed target but about 4.5 km CEP vs a survyed target. A CEP of 17km means 50% of warheads land within 900 km² area and all land within 6615 km².

A CEP of only 4.5 km means 50% of all warheads should land within ~ 64km² while all should land within 463km².

So the V-1 against surveyed target should be around 3.25 CEP @ maximum range [~ 200km] At 100 km range The CEP should be 1/2 this or 1.6km and at 50km it should be ~ 800m. In that case 50% of all warheads should land within a 2km² area.

Any one know how much surface area a ton of warhead can damage?

But this is still very difficult to pull off. V-1 had to launch from concret pads and would quickly be targeted by allied air superiorty. Still while they were launching they could be effective. I thought at this time in the war the most they could launched was a dozen or two a day ?

Even if it the things could be calibrated with any accuracy then the effect on the beachead isn't going to be much greater than the railway guns used against the Anzio beachead, 'Anzio Annie' and the 'Anzio Express'.
 
Imagine the effect on the battle for Normandy of thousands more 3.7" guns available to the Royal Artillery with their mobile targeting radar and hundreds of thousands more extremely expensive proximity fused shells. Add to that the squadrons of "bleeding edge" fighter aircraft, Tempests, Spitfire Mk18s, Mosquito FB 26 and Meteors that were defending London from the V 1s and you have a significant addition to the allies armoury in Normandy.
 
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Given the allied Air superiority over the normandy beaches, it's unlikely any V1 would have reached the beaches without beeing shot down first. Unless launched at night, maybe.

Yeah, none ever reached London because of those same reasons...
 
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