V1 drones during the battle of Britain

Deleted member 1487

Wiking,

While at Wright-Patterson, Dr Vogt, whom you referenced in the luft46 entry, was always an exponent of high aspect ratio wings (even those made of concrete as in the article). He led a range extension project for the B-36 involving fuel carrying jettisonable floating wing extensions which would have increased the outbound wing span to nearly 350 feet. This approach was also used in an early proposal for the North American WS-110A -later to become the B-70.

Dynasoar
Any idea why his ideas weren't adopted?
 
Any idea why his ideas weren't adopted?

Can't comment on the concrete wing, or Dr Vogt's series of assymetric aircraft for Blohm & Voss. The floating wing panels were demonstrated at Wright Field on a B-25 and worked as designed. Nobody was much interested in B-36 applications, since the '52 and flight refueling was coming on at that time.

Floating panels were part of the original subsonic cruise-supersonic dash WS-110A program proposal which I had an opportunity to evaluate for the AF as a civilian consultant several years later.i The numbers were fine, but the AF specs were changed to require an entirely supersonic mission. If there is any interest, I'll try to scan a couple of pages describing the floating panels from my copy of this now entirely declassified report.

Dynasoar
 

Deleted member 1487

Can't comment on the concrete wing, or Dr Vogt's series of assymetric aircraft for Blohm & Voss. The floating wing panels were demonstrated at Wright Field on a B-25 and worked as designed. Nobody was much interested in B-36 applications, since the '52 and flight refueling was coming on at that time.

Floating panels were part of the original subsonic cruise-supersonic dash WS-110A program proposal which I had an opportunity to evaluate for the AF as a civilian consultant several years later.i The numbers were fine, but the AF specs were changed to require an entirely supersonic mission. If there is any interest, I'll try to scan a couple of pages describing the floating panels from my copy of this now entirely declassified report.

Dynasoar
I'd certainly be interested.
 
Wiking,

After an hour of trying to send attachments, one of my daughters came through to save the day. 3A is the report cover, but it has faded over the years. The title reads: Results Of Optimum Full Throttle Range Analysis Of The Model X Weapons System. 3B presents performance of the supersonic component (including weapon deployment). 3C is a page of explanatory text, discussing the aircraft. The bulk of the TR consists of equations and more curves.

The subject Model X was the NAA proposed characteristics of their original WS-110A submission. This TR was my first for Princeton based DODCO, Inc.

Dynasoar
 

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Visit verheesengineering.com for my ideal cheap plywood delta V-1 planform- Two fins, shielding both sides of engine, on top instead of the pilot's canopy. Entire airplane scaled up by sqrt 2 for proper W/S carrying same warload. A slightly thinner wing section and speed might be a little faster than Fi-103.

Dynasoar
 
V1 Range is 160 miles it is pretty much limited to targets in the South of England - Liverpool and the Midlands is too far North - certainly later versions might have the legs but not the V1

Not sure it is viable to be brought forwards to get in range of Stalingrad? Stalingrad is smaller than London effectively a ribbon of Urban territory along the river and by the time 6th Army began its attack the LW had bombed it to Shit

Malta has a very high concentration of AAA and is much much smaller than London and vastly less urbanised.

As it was the V1 range was extended to 250 miles

Liverpool is about 430 miles, the range would certainly need to be built up but I do not think it could be ruled out.

Stalingrad, I agree with you.

Malta, plenty of targets, a decent hit on the port would be critical.
 
As it was the V1 range was extended to 250 miles

Liverpool is about 430 miles, the range would certainly need to be built up but I do not think it could be ruled out.

Stalingrad, I agree with you.

Malta, plenty of targets, a decent hit on the port would be critical.

Malta was bombed to %$^& by conventional 2 and 3 engine bombers OTL - so I am not sure what a handful of additional V1 hits are going to achieve
 
I don't know the exact sizes but London is a much bigger target than Malta and the V1s regularly missed London in fact they often missed the British isles from 40 miles away.
 
Even if the V1 is ready for deployment prior to July 1940 (and that seems very unlikely to me) then with the fall of France only just happening how quickly can the launch sites be built and the requisite number of V1 for a sustained campaign transported to those sites. To achieve this what gets bumped from both the supply and procurement chains. I suspect no real impact until after the end of the BoB as we know it unless Goering is long gone and the higher ranks of the Luftwaffe have a very different mentality to OTL.
 

Deleted member 1487

Even if the V1 is ready for deployment prior to July 1940 (and that seems very unlikely to me) then with the fall of France only just happening how quickly can the launch sites be built and the requisite number of V1 for a sustained campaign transported to those sites. To achieve this what gets bumped from both the supply and procurement chains. I suspect no real impact until after the end of the BoB as we know it unless Goering is long gone and the higher ranks of the Luftwaffe have a very different mentality to OTL.
Without having to deal with bombing of the launch sites like in 1944, probably no more than 3-4 months to have at least a dozen operational (12-15 launches per day per site was the 1944 average); that is with the damaged infrastructure from the 1940 campaign delaying things too.
 
Malta was bombed to %$^& by conventional 2 and 3 engine bombers OTL - so I am not sure what a handful of additional V1 hits are going to achieve

Probably not much, but for ports the prospect of around-the-clock attacks that the V-1 brings might disrupt capacity an additional bit.
 
I don't know the exact sizes but London is a much bigger target than Malta and the V1s regularly missed London in fact they often missed the British isles from 40 miles away.

From memory (done this before LOL) 'Greater London' today is over 600 Sqaure Miles in size and virtually all built up - while Malta today is some thing like 150 Square miles in its entirety and vastly less built up than London - so it is a quarter of the size and when it is hit the V1 is unlikely to hit anything vital

Air range as the V1 flies is greater than 60 miles.
 
so we are looking at October before serious numbers start to fly. By that time the BoB is done and dusted and the Unspeakable Sea Mammal is at least hibernating till the spring of 1941. Therefore this is basically an assault in conjunction with the night Blitz. Other than making it a 24/7 affair I doubt much would change from OTL, other than the Germans having to surround their V1 site with all available light Flak as RAF fighter/bombers conduct rhubarb attacks against them.
 
so we are looking at October before serious numbers start to fly. By that time the BoB is done and dusted and the Unspeakable Sea Mammal is at least hibernating till the spring of 1941. Therefore this is basically an assault in conjunction with the night Blitz. Other than making it a 24/7 affair I doubt much would change from OTL, other than the Germans having to surround their V1 site with all available light Flak as RAF fighter/bombers conduct rhubarb attacks against them.
Why would it take longer to place launch sites in range of London than the time it took to redeploy fighters to airfields in the range of London? Wouldn't the V1s need less maintenance than fighters and bombers?
 
V1 sites Known as 'Ski sites' due to their characteristic shape on recon pictures required a considerable permanent infrastructure build that does not appear overnight.
 
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Probably not much, but for ports the prospect of around-the-clock attacks that the V-1 brings might disrupt capacity an additional bit.

The Axis and Allies fought for air superiority over Malta, there was quite a period when the Axis bombers could only do limited bombing by Oct 1942, Malta was safe and the siege lifted. So the V1s could have kept the bombing up about another longer.

The accuracy of the V1s would be much better as the distance is only about 98 km and the Germans have observers to check the accuracy
 
I imagine, but I also doubt the French left their airfields in prime conditions
V1 sites Known as 'Ski sites' due to their characteristic shape on recon pictures required a considerable permanent infrastructure build that does not appear overnight.

According to this site.

http://www.atlantikwall.org.uk/v1.htm

"A team of around forty me could complete a V1 light site in around three weeks."

I am sure that in 1940/41 the Germans would find it quicker to build then in 1943/44
 
A V1 light site took three weeks not a Ski site. Look earlier in the article you posted and you will see the following statement;- 'The Germans started building V1 sites here in La Manche in 1943, by D-day they had forty sites nearing completion.' Note also that this in La Manche not the Pas de Calais.
 
A V1 light site took three weeks not a Ski site. Look earlier in the article you posted and you will see the following statement;- 'The Germans started building V1 sites here in La Manche in 1943, by D-day they had forty sites nearing completion.' Note also that this in La Manche not the Pas de Calais.

I do not believe that any of this is significant, the Germans problems with V1 was not the launch pads and later they also launched the V1 from planes, so they did not need these sites. Still, in 1940/41, I would expect that they would be ski but in 1943/44 they switched to light because of the allied bombing which is what I said that the Germans would find it easier to build these sites in 1940/41.

Also, the distance measured using this site here
http://tjpeiffer.com/crowflies.html

Calais, France to London direct is 94 miles, while La Manche to London direct is 106 miles. 10 miles makes little difference here.
 
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