Västergötland develops as an independent kingdom

[Eivind]

Today there are three Scandinavian countries, Norway, Sweden and Denmark. I have thought about the possibility of a fourth independent kingdom developing during the Middle Ages. I think Västergötland (West Gothland), possibly including some more surrounding area, particularly along the coast, might be a realistic area. In the Middle Ages most of what is today Sweden´s west coast was controlled by Denmark and Norway, apart from a small area around what is today Gothenburg. What is the chance that this area, possibly also including Östergötland could develop as an independent kingdom and remain so up until today?

I must admit that I am no expert about the exact relationship between Götaland and Svealand in the Middle Ages and whether the two ever had different kings. Could anybody enlighten me?

 

[Ain]

If I remember correctly the Gothlandic region was conquered by Swedish rules relatively early on. It was mentioned in the ancient poem Beowulf, after all. They likely had their own rulers, but by the time of the true Middle Ages, they'd been conquered for at least a hundred years, as far as I am aware.

 

[Tyr]

They were originally a different tribe to the Svea and yes, had different kings.
But then in the dark ages kings were two a penny, anyone governing a small village and paying minimal homage to another man would call himself a king.

If you're after a 4th Scandinavian kingdom IMO Gotland island would be more the way to go. Vastergotland is good land, but very horribly placed right in the middle of the power centres of the other 3 kingdoms. A place in the middle like that....rather hard to imagine it retaining independence.

 

[Eivind]

They were originally a different tribe to the Svea and yes, had different kings.
But then in the dark ages kings were two a penny, anyone governing a small village and paying minimal homage to another man would call himself a king.

If you're after a 4th Scandinavian kingdom IMO Gotland island would be more the way to go. Vastergotland is good land, but very horribly placed right in the middle of the power centres of the other 3 kingdoms. A place in the middle like that....rather hard to imagine it retaining independence.

Couldn´t it be that Västergötland would compete with Denmark over the control of Norway? In the late tenth and early eleventh century Norway several times were controlled by Danish kings, although gradually the Danish king lost control over Norway. Maybe the king of Västergötland also would control Bohuslän and Viken, while the king of Norway controlled the coastal area from Rogaland and northwards?

 

[Westphalian]

In this map, the Svear are yellow, the Götar/Geats are purple.

As Tyr said, the Götar live directly between Swedes, Danes and Norse.
This map of Västergötland is correct insofar as in the middle ages Värmland was part of Götaland, not Svealand like today. It is wrong in including Bohuslän/Alfheim, since that was a part of Norway.

Ah, this map has better borders, but less detail:

And a third version:

The political (seat of the Alla götars ting) and cultural centre of Västergötland was Skara. It is one of the earliest bishoprics in Scandinavia and a place of early christianization. This map shows the density of early church buildings:

 

[arctic warrior]

According to Danish scholars unification of Sweden originated in the Kingdom of Östergötland.
During part of the 12. century Västergötland was attached to the Kingdom of Denmark by conquest making the Danish crown prince its king - not unlike the Prince of Wales or Dauphin.
Norway was just about to unite the Scandinavian kingdoms just before the Danes did so; Haakon VI living longer and married to Margrethe (I) could have pulled it off.
Västergötland as already pointed out was badly situated and Gotland would be so too with the maritime strenght of Denmark (sack of Visby 1361!) unless it developed some backup territory somewhere.

 

[Eivind]

According to Danish scholars unification of Sweden originated in the Kingdom of Östergötland.
During part of the 12. century Västergötland was attached to the Kingdom of Denmark by conquest making the Danish crown prince its king - not unlike the Prince of Wales or Dauphin.
Norway was just about to unite the Scandinavian kingdoms just before the Danes did so; Haakon VI living longer and married to Margrethe (I) could have pulled it off.
Västergötland as already pointed out was badly situated and Gotland would be so too with the maritime strenght of Denmark (sack of Visby 1361!) unless it developed some backup territory somewhere.

So what if a king of Västergötland conquered Bohuslän and Viken, but not Svealand? That is, the king of Norway controls other parts of Norway, while the king of Svealand remains independent? Wouldn´t the king of Västergötland, Bohuslän and Viken be strong enough to remain independent in such a situation? The question, of course, is whether he then would be so strong that he would be able to take Svealand, but maybe Svealand would take control over more areas on the Swedish east coast, like Östergötland and Småland and also north of Svealand? I would assume that this might create a situation where the four powers might balance against each others?

 

[arctic warrior]

In that way Vestargötaland would de facto conquer the Norwegian mainland.
Perhaps Bohuslän and Halland - possibly Småland.

Problem is that Denmark and Norway on their own have the resources and Sweden building upon Östergötaland and Svealand need time to develop. Remember the Hvide clan of Sjælland embarked on their private conquest of Sweden by 1200 after having run their own crusades on the southern shores of the Baltic. True they were ruling Sjælland having those resources on hand but anyway thats the kind of opposition.
It leaves little room for Vestergötaland to develop.
If the Götalands could unite and leave the Svear to develop the north on their own they may stand a chance.
Though I think Vestergötaland is just too close to Denmark and Norway and if it prospers it will just be even more tempting to conquer.

 

[Eivind]

In that way Vestargötaland would de facto conquer the Norwegian mainland.
Perhaps Bohuslän and Halland - possibly Småland.

Problem is that Denmark and Norway on their own have the resources and Sweden building upon Östergötaland and Svealand need time to develop. Remember the Hvide clan of Sjælland embarked on their private conquest of Sweden by 1200 after having run their own crusades on the southern shores of the Baltic. True they were ruling Sjælland having those resources on hand but anyway thats the kind of opposition.
It leaves little room for Vestergötaland to develop.
If the Götalands could unite and leave the Svear to develop the north on their own they may stand a chance.
Though I think Vestergötaland is just too close to Denmark and Norway and if it prospers it will just be even more tempting to conquer.

Maybe an alternative could be a king in Viken taking control of Bohuslän and Vestergötland? Originally, as far as I understand it, the name of Norway was mainly used for the Western part of OTL Norway. If such a kingdom remained independent from (Western) Norway, one would have a fourth kingdom.

 

[arctic warrior]

It could work that way though I would think the Viken is so important to Norway that this would be Norway rather than Vestergötaland!
West Norway seems to have been a number of Jarl-doms with lots of independence. This may really play into the hands of the Danish kings making it easier to conquer Scandinavia - if they realize it and keeps out of the German morass.

 

[Eivind]

It could work that way though I would think the Viken is so important to Norway that this would be Norway rather than Vestergötaland!
West Norway seems to have been a number of Jarl-doms with lots of independence. This may really play into the hands of the Danish kings making it easier to conquer Scandinavia - if they realize it and keeps out of the German morass.

The name of such a kingdom would probably be neither Norway nor Vestergötland, as the name Norway was primarily connected to the west. Not sure what would be the most likely name for the kingdom.

 

[arctic warrior]

One area that would really help the formation of a fourth kingdom in Scandinavia would be Scania; it wouldn't off set Denmark too much or at least not make it as dominant as OTL.
How about the two Götalands control Scania. That would make for a viable entity. Of course there's the problem of travel through the forested Småland but perhaps Lagan or Nissan rivers could be used for that. Boats during summer and sledges during winter like in Russia.

 

[Eivind]

One area that would really help the formation of a fourth kingdom in Scandinavia would be Scania; it wouldn't off set Denmark too much or at least not make it as dominant as OTL.
How about the two Götalands control Scania. That would make for a viable entity. Of course there's the problem of travel through the forested Småland but perhaps Lagan or Nissan rivers could be used for that. Boats during summer and sledges during winter like in Russia.

What about Jutland (Jylland)?

 

[arctic warrior]

Could be a possible. According to some scholars North Jutland, Southern Norway and the Swedish west coast inhabitants did interact during prehistoric times. Anyway the Jutland nobility seemed to be the rebellious lot during the early kingdom time.
Something like Viken, Bohuslän, Vestargötaland and northern Jutland - how far south is an open question but this should take some steam out of the Danes and Norwegians from becoming too dominant and make room for something to happen in Sweden too.

 

[Eivind]

Or maybe the Holy Roman Empire could conquer Jutland. I guess this would weaken the Danish king, as he would get a strong competitor much closer.

 

[The Professor]

OTL Scandinavia coalesced into 3 nations around trade along the Atlantic fjords (Norway), Northern Baltic (Sweden) and Baltic Approachs/Sounds (Denmark), so it is possible to add a 4th one on the East Baltic Sounds / MidBaltic Coast.
Essentially an independent Greater Scania.
Adding one around Vestergötaland does not seem viable unless it's a forced breakup from a larger entity e.g where Vikenland and VGland are detached from a Norway-Sweden or Greater Denmark

 

[Tyr]

Here's an idea- how about the geats are the ones to take Sweden, not the svea. ... however the svea set up a kingdom for themselves in finland?