USSR wins the Soviet-Afghan War, what happens next?

What if the Soviet Union successfully quelled the mujahideen insurgency in Afghanistan sometime in the early 1980s and established it as a communist puppet state, as unrealistic as it sounds?

What I’m mainly curious about is what would happen next. Realistically what would happen after a Soviet victory in this war? What were they planning to do from there?

As I implied before this is more of a hypothetical scenario than a realistic one based on events that happened in real life as it is infamously hard to win a war in Afghanistan. I’m mainly curious as to what would happen after this if the Soviet’s initial plan went as intended.
 
The conflict was very brutal and both sides commited horrible war crimes.

However I do think that Afghanistan would've been a lot better place in the long run. Once in power, the PDPA embarked upon a program of rapid modernization centered on separation of Mosque and State, eradication of illiteracy (which at the time stood at 90%), land reform, emancipation of women, and abolition of feudal practices. Usury, bride price and forced marriage were banned, and Sharia Law was abolished. Despite accusations and predictions by conservative elements, a year and a half after the Saur revolution no restrictions had been placed on religious practice. Had the DRA, backed by the USSR, successfully repressed the Mujahedin, Afghanistan would've pursued a way more progressive and socially just path.

Also, in hindsight, allmost everything is better than four decades of war and religious fundamentalism.
 
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mial42

Gone Fishin'
Soviets won most of the military operations in Afghanistan so technically they won militarily.
Considering the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was one of the precipitating causes of their collapse, this seems even less correct then the US-Vietnam version of this statement.

Winning most battles =/= winning the war. The Soviet-Afghan war ended with the Soviets withdrawing having utterly failed at their objectives and having spent an enormous amount of resources that they couldn't afford to spend. The Mujahedeen unequivocally won.
 
Instead of America being the target of groups like Al-Qaeda, it will be USSR/Russia. Or perhaps both superpowers get hit. Afghanistan will be a far better place than in OTL. Without the Taliban in control, the invasion in 2003 would not happen. Pakistan or Saudi Arabia might be at risk of one, if something like 9/11 happens.
 
Considering the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was one of the precipitating causes of their collapse, this seems even less correct then the US-Vietnam version of this statement.

Winning most battles =/= winning the war. The Soviet-Afghan war ended with the Soviets withdrawing having utterly failed at their objectives and having spent an enormous amount of resources that they couldn't afford to spend. The Mujahedeen unequivocally won.
Afghans bodycount was 100 times more
And their economy will not recover for decades
Islamic fundamentalism has been thoroughly discredited as a political ideology
Almost all munafiqeen warlords wasted their energies in a self destructive civil war

yes the money wasted in that war definitely would have been better spent in ussr itself
 

mial42

Gone Fishin'
Afghans bodycount was 100 times more
Irrelevant. The USSR's goal was to not kill Afghans, it was to maintain their puppet/client/ally (the boundaries between those get blurry when dealing with Cold War super powers). They failed. The Mujahedeen's goal (to the extent that they were united enough to have a single goal; obviously individual groups had their own goals and visions for Afghanistan) was to expel the USSR. They succeeded.
And their economy will not recover for decades
The USSR's goal was not to destroy the Afghan economy. And while we're talking about economic effects of the war, the USSR doesn't even exist any more in large part because of the war.
Islamic fundamentalism has been thoroughly discredited as a political ideology
I mean no disrespect, but this seems at odds with reality. 9/11? Al Qaeda? ISIS? Boko Haram? Al-Shabaab? And these are only the non-state terrorists, if we start including things like the Taliban, Saudi Arabia, or the Muslim Brotherhood as Islamic Fundamentalism the list grows much longer. Islamic Fundamentalism was never stronger then in the 1989-mid 2010s period, in large part because it successfully drove off the atheistic USSR and united much of the Muslim world in the process, at least rhetorically.
 
What if the Soviet Union successfully quelled the mujahideen insurgency in Afghanistan sometime in the early 1980s and established it as a communist puppet state, as unrealistic as it sounds?

What I’m mainly curious about is what would happen next. Realistically what would happen after a Soviet victory in this war? What were they planning to do from there?

As I implied before this is more of a hypothetical scenario than a realistic one based on events that happened in real life as it is infamously hard to win a war in Afghanistan. I’m mainly curious as to what would happen after this if the Soviet’s initial plan went as intended.
Well, the initial Soviet plan was for the Soviets to stabilize the new Karmal regime, and withdraw in six-twelve months, after most of the country was secured, so that the new Afghan regime could handle the rest for themselves. The problem is, thats close to impossible to achieve.

First, the Afghan communists were, even before the Soviet arrival, extremely unpopular, with the support of around 10-15% of the population, mostly in the urban areas. Their land reform was a failure that lead to the Afghan food production falling in its amount, and to several urprisings, so much that the first communist leader Muhammad Taraki decided to scale it down. After he got a mild case of assasination, his successor Amin went so far as to declare himself a devout muslim, and the communist revolution an islamic one, while also blaming the twenty thousand people already executed by the red's merely his predeccesor's fault. Didn't help and by the time the Soviet's actuallly invaded, the government had almost completely lost control outside of the major cities. Karmal then returned a large part of the land and property taken under the land reform, while promissing reforms, freedom of speach and appointment of non-communists, while also returning to a more traditional flag. To be fair to him, these policies were actually implemented and might have even worked, however the problem were the Soviets, who the Afghans hated as foreign invaers (which they were), and Karmal as their puppet (which he at least partially was). Also, the Afghan millitary bassically ceased to be an effective fighting force after the Soviet intervention, with only 25000 of its previous 100 000 men remaining, and even them being quite demoralized. Funnily enough, after Karmal was ousted by the Soviets in 1986, and later the Soviet withdrawal, his successor Najbullah actually managed to increase his public support.... by renouncing Marxism, partially breaking relations with the USSR, and declaring Afghanistan an Islamic republic. He still lost against the Mujahadeen, but lasted several years more then anyone expected.

Next giant issue is Afghanistan itslef. The Soviets planned to merely secure towns and roads at firs, considering the mountains unnecessary to controlling Afghanistan, expecting any rebels to not last long in them. The problem is, they swiftly realized that they would actually have to take the badly reachable areas, if they wanted to secure Afghanistan, beacause leaving them alone would be letting the Mujahadeen time to strenghten, and then launch counter-attack. So, if the USSR wants to win in Afghanistan, they actually have to control its entirity, not merely the roads and main settlements. This is extremely difficult, and will definetly take over the expected year. Another problem, if you leave nay part in the Mujahadeen hads, they are amost certain to get aid, either from the US, or from the Pakistanis and Saudis. Who can continue to arm them for a fraction of the cost the Soviets have to spend on this whole thing.

So, let's say that the Soviets manage to secure the entire Afghanistan by 1983. Not especially realistic but possible in theory. First off, their plan to leave the things to their puppet governmant is close to impossible. The Afghan communist army is no longer an actuall battle worthy force, the popular support, especially due to the Regime's ties to the Soviets, is close to null, and the moment the Soviets withdraw, the Mujahadeen will start flooding back from Pakistan, while new ones will rise in the country itself. Building the Afghan army back up is also not realistic, due to the population hating your guts. So the two options are either: leave your puppet to die and make the entire adventure worthless, or double down and try to permanently occupy the country.

Oh, sidenote, conquering the entirity of Afhanistan has probably cost the Soviets close to what they spent in OTL for the entire thing, while also perhaps leading to an even bigger body count.

So option 1 is unlikely for the moment. While the old pig Brezhnev is thankfully buried by this point, withdrawing now, when USSR has in theory won, would turn them into the laughing stock.
So, option 2 it is. Now, you have to hold much bigger area then in OTL, having to crush any urprising quickly, while facing incursions from Pakistani borders, while desperatly trying to turn the Afghan army and regime into a somewhat stable entity, which is not really possible, beacause as long as USSR is present, the regime will be associated with foreign occupiers and hated by the people.

I would say the whole thing is even worse then OTL. The USSR will have to throw even more money, and suffer even more losses, untill they get a leader who will be ready to admit that the whole thing is untenable. In this case, ""victory"", is likely to lead the USSR into an even faster collapse, or at the very least be an even bigger money, lives and prestige sink then OTL.
 
I have an idea. What about arming women en masse? They were the group benefitting most from the reforms of PDPA. Would all-female units be reliable and good enough to bolster the fledgling army?
 
I have an idea. What about arming women en masse? They were the group benefitting most from the reforms of PDPA. Would all-female units be reliable and good enough to bolster the fledgling army?
Most of them are hyper institutionalized in that type of society but if the Mujahideen was anything like Saudi Arabia then prehapse you might find some just out of how draconian the syestem is even compared to other Middle Eastern country's on female rights (you might be able to build a small support Corps for propaganda reasons but I don't think you will find enough to make a real dent sadly)
 
Most of them are hyper institutionalized in that type of society but if the Mujahideen was anything like Saudi Arabia then prehapse you might find some just out of how draconian the syestem is even compared to other Middle Eastern country's on female rights (you might be able to build a small support Corps for propaganda reasons but I don't think you will find enough to make a real dent sadly)
The idea is to make as many women as possible removed from their previous, oppressed lives, and spread dissent against the old ways.
 
I have an idea. What about arming women en masse? They were the group benefitting most from the reforms of PDPA. Would all-female units be reliable and good enough to bolster the fledgling army?

It would only unify the opposition further. It's uncertain if the afghan society could handle a female military unit today, let alone during the 80's.
As for a soviet victory and its impact, much would depend on how it was achieved.

OTL the communists managed to get on every tribe's bad side leading them to work together.
If the Soviets could pull a Qaddafi and play historic enemies against one another then they might achieve a relatively stable power base without casualties going out of control.
 
It would only unify the opposition further. It's uncertain if the afghan society could handle a female military unit today, let alone during the 80's.
As for a soviet victory and its impact, much would depend on how it was achieved.

OTL the communists managed to get on every tribe's bad side leading them to work together.
If the Soviets could pull a Qaddafi and play historic enemies against one another then they might achieve a relatively stable power base without casualties going out of control.
So, educating and training women for military roles could not achieve mass emancipation, and a breakdown of patriarchal structures? Training could be done by the Soviets.
 
So, educating and training women for military roles could not achieve mass emancipation, and a breakdown of patriarchal structures? Training could be done by the Soviets.

Not at that point in time in that particular region. It's a modern idea that once you educate women society will follow, but truth of the matter is that any society, let alone a VERY traditional society, needs time to adjust.
Just look at how long it took in most of the western world to achieve women's voting rights. The tension post world war one and two when women worked in war factories because the men were at the front is yet another example.

Even today women in the army and navy especially in combat units and on ships/submarines are the exception to the rule. Forcing emancipation is going to cause a push back.
 
First you stop the fiction that Afghanistan is a country. You break it into the tribal areas and have each one be a self-sustaining SSR. Then you encourage the cultivation of poppies and buy them (even at an inflated price) in a central controlled market. That market then surreptitiously sells the opium base to the cartels for importation into the west. This helps the central Soviet Government continue its efforts at western decay. You let the tribal councils self govern as long as they stay within their area. And the rest of the world forgets about the part of central asia that is shown on old maps as Afghanistan. Nobody really cared about it anyway.
 
So, educating and training women for military roles could not achieve mass emancipation, and a breakdown of patriarchal structures? Training could be done by the Soviets.

it's a nice idea but a lot of women razed in that environment wont be receptive, itl make the very traditional tribal leaders even more incensed. also were three Soviets in the 80s inclined towards something lik that?? I was uuneer the impression they had rolled back a lo of women's roles by the 80s
 
Considering the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was one of the precipitating causes of their collapse, this seems even less correct then the US-Vietnam version of this statement.

Winning most battles =/= winning the war. The Soviet-Afghan war ended with the Soviets withdrawing having utterly failed at their objectives and having spent an enormous amount of resources that they couldn't afford to spend. The Mujahedeen unequivocally won.
The USSR's goal was to not kill Afghans, it was to maintain their puppet/client/ally (the boundaries between those get blurry when dealing with Cold War super powers). They failed. The Mujahedeen's goal (to the extent that they were united enough to have a single goal; obviously individual groups had their own goals and visions for Afghanistan) was to expel the USSR. They succeeded.
Despite predictions to the contrary from the West, Najibullah's Afghanistan didn't fall like a house of cards as soon Soviet troops left and showed itself capable of handling the mujahedeen by itself:
Wikipedia said:
After the Soviet withdrawal on 15 February 1989, the government of President Mohammad Najibullah and his People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) was on its own. The U.S. intelligence agencies expected the regime to collapse within three to six months.[9]

However, this estimation did not take into account several assets available to the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan (DRA) government. The first of these was the large quantities of military hardware donated by the Soviet Union. In 1989, the army and pro-government militias still had 1568 tanks, 828 armoured personnel carriers, 4880 artillery pieces, 126 modern fighter-bombers and 14 attack helicopters. Also, the DRA continued to receive massive aid from the Soviet Union, valued between two and six billion dollars a year, and Soviet military advisors were still present in Afghanistan.[5] The government forces also came to rely on the use of large quantities of Scud missiles: between 1988 and 1992 more than 2000 of these were fired inside Afghanistan, the largest amount of ballistic missiles used since World War II. This considerable amount of firepower was sufficient to keep the mujahideen at bay.
...
In the spring of 1989, the Seven-Party (Afghanistan mujahideen) Union in Peshawar[4] supported by the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI attacked Jalalabad.[4][16] The ISI's Director Gul wanted to see a mujahideen government over Afghanistan,[16] led by Hekmatyar.[17]… Contrary to American and Pakistani expectations, this battle proved that the Afghan Army could fight without Soviet help, and greatly increased the confidence of government supporters. Conversely, the morale of the mujahideen involved in the attack slumped and many local commanders of Hekmatyar and Sayyaf concluded truces with the government.[22] In the words of Brigadier-General Mohammed Yousaf, an officer of the ISI, "the jihad never recovered from Jalalabad".[21] In particular of course Pakistan's plans to promote Hekmatyar were also harmed. Both the Pakistani and the American governments were frustrated with the outcome... any segment of mujahideen unity crumbled.
...
The government forces further proved their worth in April 1990, during an offensive against a fortified complex at Paghman. After a heavy bombardment and an assault that lasted until the end of June, the Afghan Army, spearheaded by Dostum's militia, was able to clear the mujahideen entrenchments.[19]
What finally caused the Afghan central government to crumble wasn't the withdrawal of Soviet troops but rather the withdrawal of Moscow's economic aid:
Wikipedia said:
Despite its military successes, the communist regime of President Mohammad Najibullah was still plagued by its traditional internal divisions, namely the opposition between the Khalq and Parcham factions... By 1992, Afghanistan was in dire straits. Reserves of natural gas, Afghanistan's only export, had dried out since 1989, rendering the country completely dependent on Soviet aid. This amounted to 230,000 tons of food per year, but by 1991, the Soviet economy was itself faltering, preventing the Soviets from fulfilling their commitments.

In August 1991, following his arrival in power, Boris Yeltsin announced that all direct assistance to Najibullah's regime would be curtailed. In January 1992, the Afghan Air Force, which had proved vital to the survival of the regime, could no longer fly any aircraft for lack of fuel. The army suffered from crippling food shortages, causing the desertion rate to rise by 60 percent between 1990 and 1991.[26]

The pro-government militias that had grown to replace the army in many of its assignments, were faithful to the regime only so long as it could deliver enough weapons to enable them to conserve their power. With the end of the Soviet aid, the government could no longer satisfy these demands, and the loyalty of the militias began to waver.

Finally, after negotiations between communist General Abdul Rashid Dostum and Ahmad Shah Massoud, the Junbish militia defected to the mujahideen. This reversal of fortunes effectively turned the tables in favor of the resistance, and forced Najibullah to resign.[27]
A scenario with either a surviving Soviet Union or Boris Yeltsin's Russia that doesn't cut off economic aid to Najibullah's government could easily butterfly away to collapse of Communist Afghanistan.
 
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