USN plans and reality vs Kriegsmarine pre-1942

[GarethC]

Can anyone shed some light on US naval thinking with regards to how they would go about engaging a KM lone raider prior to Pearl Harbor? The OOB I've found for the Atlantic Squadron has 4 BBs (none of which could catch a raider), 5 CAs, and about 30 destroyers, plus Ranger and some rather old aircraft.

Presumably, one or both of the Twins would require the intervention of a similar number of battleships - presumably after a successful TBD or destroyer torpedo attack, as they are too slow otherwise.

For a single panzerschiff or Hipper-class, though, was it thought by the US that a treaty cruiser like Wichita would be a clear victor in a duel, or would the cruisers run in pairs or threes despite the lower likelihood of actually engaging the enemy? Did that thinking change after the River Plate?

Whatever the thinking, how do we (with the benefit of hindsight) think such a duel would have gone?

 

[CalBear]

The U.S. would have brought some of the PacFleet over to hunt, if necessary.

Basic U.S. doctrine was very different that that of the RN, which was designed around solitary cruisers making the rounds of the Empire (one reason why the British pushed so hard for no limit on 6" cruisers in Washington and received a larger tonnage allocation for CL in London). What would have hunted a raider, using basic USN practice would have been some CA, backed up with carrier task forces.

BTW: The concern of a possible IJN "raider" was why the abomination that was the Alaska class CB existed.

 

[Hoist40]

On Dec 7 1941 the US had the following in the Atlantic, some fitting out or working up. The USN had been stripping some ships out of the Pacific Fleet to build up the new Atlantic Fleet.

Carriers Ranger, Yorktown, Wasp, Hornet and Long Island.

The battleships, Arkansas, New York, Texas, New Mexico, Mississippi, Idaho, North Carolina, Washington.

Heavy Cruisers, Augusta, Quincy, Vincennes, Wichita.

Light Cruisers, Omaha, Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Memphis, Brooklyn, Philadelphia, Savannah, Nashville.

91 Destroyers

48 Submarines

http://www.navsource.org/Naval/usf.htm

 

[Matt Wiser]

In November, '41, there was a serious concern that a German raider (either the pocket battleship Admiral Scheer, her sister Lutzow, or the big one: Tirpitz) was going to be sent out into the Atlantic from Norway. Admiral King (then CINCLANT) put three battleships (Idaho, Mississippi, and New Mexico), two cruisers, and three destroyers as Task Force One, and deployed them into the Denmark Strait to prevent, by force if necessary, any raider from breaking out. As it happened, Scheer suffered machinery damage that kept her in port, and Lutzow was torpedoed by RAF aircraft in June '41 and was still under repair. Tirpitz was in Norway, but Hitler wouldn't allow her to go out into the Atlantic.

But if Scheer had made the raiding cruise as intended, and encountered TF 1, there are several possibilities: first, the German encounters the USN squadron and turns back without further incident. Second, there is an exchange of fire with the USN, but she is either undamaged or takes some damage, but escapes. Third, she is sunk. If that happens, Hitler goes into one of his celebrated rages, and declares war on the U.S. a month prior to the planned Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor and offensive into SEA. Which makes the Pacific situation, well, interesting....

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

In November, '41, there was a serious concern that a German raider (either the pocket battleship Admiral Scheer, her sister Lutzow, or the big one: Tirpitz) was going to be sent out into the Atlantic from Norway. Admiral King (then CINCLANT) put three battleships (Idaho, Mississippi, and New Mexico), two cruisers, and three destroyers as Task Force One, and deployed them into the Denmark Strait to prevent, by force if necessary, any raider from breaking out. ....

Source Plzzz I agree, this is interesting.

Can anyone shed some light on US naval thinking with regards to how they would go about engaging a KM lone raider prior to Pearl Harbor? ...

Some clues might come from studying the USN efforts to nail the armed merchant raiders, and contingency plans for the Ugly Sisters raids wandering into the western Atlantic Nuetral Zone. The bits in the literature describing patrols/reconissance, contingency plans, and training exercises should help.

 

[Matt Wiser]

Operation Drumbeat, by Michael Gannon, softcover edition, Ch.3, p. 88. That particular chapter also goes into USN and Kriegsmarine thinking as war approached in Fall '41.

 

[Simreeve]

The U.S. would have brought some of the PacFleet over to hunt, if necessary.

Basic U.S. doctrine was very different that that of the RN, which was designed around solitary cruisers making the rounds of the Empire.

That's only RN peace-time operating doctrine, not how it went about hunting those raiders.
IOTL nine 'hunting groups', containing a total of 23 ships (including some Free French ones), were organised to chase those raiders down: Each group had a main striking force of either an aircraft carrier, an aircraft carrier & one of the faster battleships, one or two of those battleships, or at the very least a pair of heavy cruisers (with 8" guns), to which another cruiser or two (probably of the '6" ' types) was added for scouting & support. For example the group that found & dealt with the Graf Spee, which was one of the weaker groups because it was assigned to cover one of the less important/likely sectors, consisted of two 8" cruisers and two 6" cruisers.

EDIT: Or maybe some of those battleships were only battlecruisers, instead? Not sure, without googling some of their names individually which I can't do now as I don't have the book in which I found the hunting groups' compositions with me.