USA Women Drafted, Fight In Wars As Conscripts

What POD, after 1900, could lead to American women being subject to a wartime draft and fighting as conscripts in infantry companies on in equal numbers (proportionately) to men? I don't meant just registering for Selective Service, I mean killing / dying in a shooting war as draftees / riflewomen.
 
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ar-pharazon

Banned
There has been discussion in recent years of adding women to the selective service and creating legislation in which if the draft were ever re-initiated women would not be exempt from conscription.

In fact-I'd predict a law making it mandatory for American women to sign up for the selective service will be passed in the next decade or two.
 
Yes, but is it possible for women to be drafted into combat earlier than
There has been discussion in recent years of adding women to the selective service and creating legislation in which if the draft were ever re-initiated women would not be exempt from conscription.

In fact-I'd predict a law making it mandatory for American women to sign up for the selective service will be passed in the next decade or two.

Yes, but is it possible for women to be drafted into combat sometime before the U.S. Military embraces volunteerism again? (I.E., before 1975 or so?) Or after the volunteer military is established, have women equal 50% of combat branches. (A possibility which is really another thread.)
 

ar-pharazon

Banned
Honestly no-the attidudes towards women in combat roles was pretty hostile up and till recently.

It certainly would not have flown in either the 19th or 20th century.

Though if the US ever got into a war this century-women would most likely be conscripted.
 
Honestly no-the attidudes towards women in combat roles was pretty hostile up and till recently.

It certainly would not have flown in either the 19th or 20th century.

Though if the US ever got into a war this century-women would most likely be conscripted.

So, if the Iraq/Afghanistan war had included a draft, would women be a part of it?
 

ar-pharazon

Banned
So, if the Iraq/Afghanistan war had included a draft, would women be a part of it?
Maybe-there would have been substantial opposition both from conservatives, republicans, and a lot of the military brass.

Though I could maybe see it getting through.
 
Maybe-there would have been substantial opposition both from conservatives, republicans, and a lot of the military brass.

Though I could maybe see it getting through.

Well, most people I know argue that the world has seen its last big war., including bloody proxies. So I guess it is a mute point if there are no more great power wars.
 
If a war went completely to shit for America, like the invasion of the mainland by a force that stands a strong chance of conquest, women would almost certainly be conscripted. Of course, that means a force that could actually take over, like, say, the Nazis actually succeed and become strong enough to conquer America (which would almost certainly take decades.)
 
Did the Soviet Union not conscript females into combat units in 'The Great Patrotic War'.

The short answer is no. A fair number were conscripted to fill out service units. Volunteers were allowed to train for selected combat roles and serve if the completed the training. Aircrew & snipers are the two best known. Possibly some artillery crew, I'd have to check. Clerks, signalers, and medics were sometimes female & in combat units. This reflects Soviet society in general where women were found across the board in industrial work they're not found in in the west. i.e.: A account of how a Soviet cargo ship on one of the Arctic convoys signaled that one of its petty officers had given birth to a baby boy.

A US PoW who escaped from a camp in Silesia or Poland described how the Red Army tank squadron that picked him up had a female commander.
 

Philip

Donor
So, if the Iraq/Afghanistan war had included a draft, would women be a part of it?

If there were a draft for Afghanistan or Iraq, then it would have included women. Not because the Congress wants to draft women. Rather, the first male who does not want to be drafted will file an Equal Protection lawsuit. The federal courts will rule that the draft can not target males only.

I don't know if this will get women into rifle companies. The courts may not wade into how the military allocates its resources, especially during wartime.
 

SsgtC

Banned
I don't think there is one. It was literally less than two years ago when combat arms were finally opened to women. And very few women have chosen those branches since. The only possible way I see women being drafted at all for previous wars, is if WWII had gone far worse for the United States, lasted far longer, and women were drafted as an untapped resource to serve as clerks, typists, cooks, mechanics, etc. Basically non-combat roles to free up men who are otherwise qualified to serve in Infantry, Armor and Artillery units or go to sea with the Navy. But women will not be drafted into combat arms.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Only scenario I can see this happening in is a Second American Civil War. But a scenario where nurses are conscripted into medical units shouldn’t be too hard to achieve.
 

SsgtC

Banned
Only scenario I can see this happening in is a Second American Civil War. But a scenario where nurses are conscripted into medical units shouldn’t be too hard to achieve.
Not even then. Actually even more, not then. Nursing was still developing as a career and specialty within the medical field. But more importantly, women would NOT have been placed into uniform. That was against every social norm that existed in the 1860s. Hell, women were barely allowed into the military in the 1940s. 80 years later. You need a major shift in how equality is viewed to take place sometime in the 1600 or 1700 hundreds to get women drafted into combat roles in the 1940s
 
During Vietnam there was a rumbling about drafting nurse (female). At the time the number of male nurses was much smaller than today, and the need was outstripping volunteering. Now slightly more than 50% of the medical students are women, so if we have a "doctor draft" it will have to include women, for both practical reasons and the legal issues noted above.

In terms of women in combat arms, basically infantry and artillery and to some extent armor, the question is physical capability. At the end of the day you can only reduce the load a grunt carries so much, and if you are a 110 pound woman versus a 175 pound man the 70+ pound load is a good deal more strain. This does not mean women cannot be in these branches, it just means that a smaller percentage of women can do this compared to men. This even apples to things like corpsmen/medics with combat units etc - they have to be in the same physical capability bucket as the riflemen. You can move women up closer, communicators in a battalion HQ,etc.

Doing all of this in 1900 is ASB or requires a POD way back in time. Having this happen sooner than OTL would require, as somebody said, an existential threat to the USA that required this sort of manpower, and even then it would start more "Rosier the Riveter" than women in combat branches. IMHO if the USA ever reinstituted a draft you would see women register and be drafted, albeit with more outs like you see in Israel, and also you would see assignment to combat arms NOT being only voluntary. Not a ton of women grunts, but there would be some and some of them would not have been ones who raised their hand.
 
Most realistic scenario that I can think of in this regards is to have a town or two along the Ohio River Valley get really devastated by Indian/French raids and loose the majority of their adult male population. The surviving women form their own militia companies for self defense and then come to Washington’s aid following the death of Braddock. These female militias remain through Pontiac’s Rebellion and into the Revolution. Washington, despite reservations, accepts them into Continental Service as independent companies (probably rangers, dragoons or skirmishers) with the backing of Adam’s (who is exasperated by Abigail’s constant nagging). The tradition of female militia companies remains through the frontier portion of the War of 1812 and a company of “Amazons” even stands against the Redcoats during their raid against Washington.

By the Civil War there are numerous Amazon and Minervan militia companies in western NY, PA, VA and scattered throughout the Midwest. Initially ignored at the outbreak of the Civil War, Lincoln finally caves to Suffragette demands and allows women to fight as volunteers in early 1863. By the end of the Civil War several female units had distinguished themselves and many Women had won Medals of Honor.

A scenario like this is unlikely, but had it occurred it is very likely women’s suffrage would have been included in the 14th/15th amendment. A lot would have changed in the US and by WWII is an almost certainty that Women would have been drafted.

Benjamin
 
If there were a draft for Afghanistan or Iraq, then it would have included women. Not because the Congress wants to draft women. Rather, the first male who does not want to be drafted will file an Equal Protection lawsuit. The federal courts will rule that the draft can not target males only.

I don't know if this will get women into rifle companies. The courts may not wade into how the military allocates its resources, especially during wartime.

SCOTUS already ruled that drafting solely men is perfectly constitutional, although that was under the Due Process clause. But, given that the 14th was also in force at the time, I don't think a lawsuit under Equal Protection would have any more success:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rostker_v._Goldberg
 
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