USA MAp challenge

650px-Map_of_USA_with_state_names_2.png


White: Kingdom of New England
(Boston)
Blue: United American States
(Washington DC)
Gray: Confederacy of American States
(Atlanta)
Gold: Imperial Louisiana
(Nouvelle Orleans)
Light Blue: Rocky Mountain Federation
(Denver)
Green: California
(Sacramento)
Light Gray: Deserate
(Salt Lake City)
Red: Republic of Texas
(San Antonio)
Orange: Pacifica
(Seattle)
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Total Balkanization, although Louisiana and CSA both seems wrong, and why Pacifica? Shouldn't Northwest be Cascadia? Also: New England as a kingdom is quite ASB.
 
I spot just about every balkanized USA cliche there - the South always called the Confederacy, Deseret centered around OTL Utah (and most likely populated by LDS folks)...

And why does Louisiana contain part of Spanish North America? Did they go to war with Spain or something?
 
You can see the Texas thing happening. The California one depends on if it's a Spanish California or an English California - if it is the former it is more believable but the latter is less likely given when California was properly settled and how it depended on the Eastern cities for export. The north west if anything is more likely to end up a part of Canada, or maybe even a larger state including British Columbia than what is shown above. As for the rest, maybe if the original 13 didn't totally unite and went their separate ways you could see some of the above happening, but the whole confederacy thing is a bit clichéd.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
I'm just angry there's no Glorious Lakota Empire or Iroquis Confederacy. And Colorado should obviously be an independent nation with loads of Airships.
 
You can see the Texas thing happening. The California one depends on if it's a Spanish California or an English California - if it is the former it is more believable but the latter is less likely given when California was properly settled and how it depended on the Eastern cities for export. The north west if anything is more likely to end up a part of Canada, or maybe even a larger state including British Columbia than what is shown above. As for the rest, maybe if the original 13 didn't totally unite and went their separate ways you could see some of the above happening, but the whole confederacy thing is a bit clichéd.

Yeah, the most plausible scenario for the colonies not joining after an ARW victory would be a tripartite split - New England, the South (which does not have to be called the Confederacy), and Virginia, large enough to be proud about it.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Yeah, the most plausible scenario for the colonies not joining after an ARW victory would be a tripartite split - New England, the South (which does not have to be called the Confederacy), and Virginia, large enough to be proud about it.
And where would Pennsylvania go? Or does it become the Grand Pennsylvanian Empire?
 

archaeogeek

Banned
It probably just throws its lot in with New England.

I think a 4-5 ways split is more likely; population wise the split would be (according to the 1790 census)
- New England proper, population 855k in 1790
- New York, might join New England, be independent or be part of a "Central Bureau" union with PA, MD and NJ. Assuming it goes it along and recovers Vermont in the process, population is 425k or half of New England proper; NJ, with only 184k, would either likely push for a "Mid Atlantic" union (which would have 1,4 million inhabitants), have a hard time alone but maybe manage, or end up either split between PA and NY for its two halves (or even entirely NY).
- Pennsylvania with the Delaware recovered had 493k
- Maryland had 329k
- Greater Virginia would be 766k
- a Carolinas republic in the south would be 721k - with Georgia only about 85k. The problem is the Carolinas and Georgia were relatively tory compared to the rest.

A New England covering both New England and the Mid-Atlantic states would probably devolve in impressive turf wars especially as some of the mid-atlantic states are far more populous than the NE states, even Maryland is comparable to "greater Massachussetts". "If Virginia can do it, we can do it" especially from NY and PA. And of course you have the port rivalries between Boston and NYC, you'd probably also get these rivalries increasingly between Baltimore and Philadelphia.

Anyway the map shown is quite ASB
 
Last edited:
I think a 4-5 ways split is more likely; population wise the split would be (according to the 1790 census)
- New England proper, population 855k in 1790
- New York, might join New England, be independent or be part of a "Central Bureau" union with PA, MD and NJ. Assuming it goes it along and recovers Vermont in the process, population is 425k or half of New England proper; NJ, with only 184k, would either likely push for a "Mid Atlantic" union (which would have 1,4 million inhabitants), have a hard time alone but maybe manage, or end up either split between PA and NY for its two halves (or even entirely NY).
- Pennsylvania with the Delaware recovered had 493k
- Maryland had 329k
- Greater Virginia would be 766k
- a Carolinas republic in the south would be 721k - with Georgia only about 85k. The problem is the Carolinas and Georgia were relatively tory compared to the rest.

A New England covering both New England and the Mid-Atlantic states would probably devolve in impressive turf wars especially as some of the mid-atlantic states are far more populous than the NE states, even Maryland is comparable to "greater Massachussetts". "If Virginia can do it, we can do it" especially from NY and PA. And of course you have the port rivalries between Boston and NYC, you'd probably also get these rivalries increasingly between Baltimore and Philadelphia.

Anyway the map shown is quite ASB

Ah, makes more sense. Thanks.

Now with a balkanized colonial period USA, perhaps Manifest Destiny won't be as easy - New Spain could conceivably block efforts by the Americans to do so.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The westernmost Mexican state. :p

Easy, Balkanized 18th century canada would be 3 colonies (Nova Scotia, Quebec, Newfoundland), the metis in the middle and probably a Columbia colony settled later. The splitting of the provinces happens in 1791, but demographically New Brunswick and Upper Canada are likely to fall to their mother province until at least the 1820s.
- Mexico proper from what were the independence states of Puebla, Mexico, Veracruz, Oaxaca and another one or two I probably forget;
- Yucatan (including Tabasco)
- Central America as per OTL but earlier balkanization could lead to Chiapas remaining part of Guatemala
- New Leon-Tamaulipas as one or two
- New Galicia on what is the OTL state of Zacatecas plus the bits that split from it after independence
- Texas, Coahuilha, New Mexico, Durango, Sinaloa, Louisiana, Upper and Lower California; could be as 8 countries or one.

IIRC the main problem with the Canada and New Spain are
- Newfoundland is tiny; we're talking of only about 20.000 people with low growth. It could be viable but would be extremely poor. Could still be workable, or it could end up being the last northeastern colony. At the time, it has the potential to become a gaelic country, too (but that's a short window)
- On the other extreme, core Mexico is something like 2-3 million people out of New Spain's population of 5-6 millions.

Finally, large parts of Louisiana would probably be out of Louisianese control; Louisiana, Arkansas and the state right above (Missouri iirc) would be the country's's only settled regions early on. Chances are without a powerful US, there would probably be either native states, provinces of whoever is in charge of the pacific north west if a great power sticks around, or independent settler states. Virginia might try to expand some.
 
Last edited:
Top