How could the USA have joined the Axis in WWII? What would have happened afterwards?
USA joins Axis
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Deleted member 40957
It is possible, but the PoD would have to be so far back (at the very least eliminating the rapprochement between America and Britain around 1900 that led to today's Special Relationship) that WWII would look radically different anyway. Japan would also have to be on the other side, unless the Pacific issue had already been dealt with.
Cook
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The Special Relationship is the product of World War Two and Britain’s decline following the war, not earlier.
How? What could solve it? US and Japanese interests were fundamentally opposed.
And you'd have to significantly moderate the policies of Nazi Germany. The US could probably get over anti-semitism, but genocide and conquering France are no-no's. A little more democracy (which is extremely implausible in Nazi Germany) would have helped too.
Cheers,
Ganesha
d32123
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Even then, the goals of Nazi Germany and the United States are fundamentally opposed. US isn't just going to let Germany invade France and bomb Britain, Nazi or not.
If FDR is not President, and you have the right circumstances, it's possible to have the US be neutral. That is as much as you can hope for in this direction without some major PODs. Joining the Axis would probably require a revolution during the Great Depression that leaves the US either fascist or quasi-fascist.
As long as the US is a functioning democracy it is impossible to see an alliance with Hitler no matter who the President is. There is simply not enough common interest political, social, or economic.
As long as the US is a functioning democracy it is impossible to see an alliance with Hitler no matter who the President is. There is simply not enough common interest political, social, or economic.
It would require the allies doing something totally stupid in 1939 - 1940 like:
1) Extreme harassment of American cargo ships as they deliver or pick up trade good from the axis nations.
2) Sinking an America passenger ship with massive loss of American civilians and telling the US government that things like this happens in war zones.
3) Sinking a German passenger ship with American passengers after the ship has entered American water and telling the US government that the British Navy can do whatever it wants.
1) Extreme harassment of American cargo ships as they deliver or pick up trade good from the axis nations.
2) Sinking an America passenger ship with massive loss of American civilians and telling the US government that things like this happens in war zones.
3) Sinking a German passenger ship with American passengers after the ship has entered American water and telling the US government that the British Navy can do whatever it wants.
Getting the US to be neutral is probably not too difficult without FDR, especially if you consider Japan as a separate issue.
You're completely right about everything else. There just isn't any common interest, either in Germany or in the United States.
Cheers,
Ganesha
So there would need to be an American fascist revolution. To get that, the Great Depression would have had to have been far deeper and far more severe than it actually was, unless we have some REALLY good fascists and no effective opposition. Which means... either capitalism being previously far more engrained or there being the combination of persuasive fascists with nothing opposing them. Then we might see something akin to the last days of the Weimar Republic, and possibly the rise of the American Nazis.
In which case the Allies all scream in horror...
In which case the Allies all scream in horror...
d32123
Banned
Fascists don't always get along with fascists, especially when their nation's interest directly conflict.
There is just no reason why America would ever support Germany in a global war without a pre-1900 PoD.
Deleted member 40957
What form of national humiliation similar to that which Germany endured could have led to the rise of an American fascist movement?
There's a reason the democratic left rose in America in the 30s rather than any fascist movements, and that's because the national collapse was purely economic and wasn't intertwined with humiliation or defeat by foreigners.
Additionally, fascism is not an internationalist ideology like communism is, so there's no reason for a fascist America not to simply stick to its own national interests during WWII and stay out, as Spain and Portugal did (and as most American Nazi sympathizers such as Lindbergh wanted OTL anyway.)
You'd need America's strategic vision to coincide with that of the Axis. (Edit: Ninja'd on this, but it stands)
MarshalBraginsky
Banned
So no one is going to mention Charles Lindberg's presidential campaign in 1940, which he could win with any chosen PoD? Lindberg was pretty much an isolationist, though I can also count on MacArthur becoming president. I'm not sure if he was pro-German or not, but this was before he was reactivated as Marshal of the philippine Army.
Deleted member 40957
Even if you do this (you'd have to kill FDR first), neither one of them would actually be willing to join the war on the Axis side. The worst you'd get is a war confined to the Pacific, and even that's fairly unlikely due to Hitler's stupidity.
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