USA in 40s and 50s without WW-II

Hello, im preparing a little article on a eventual US society in a timeline without WW-II.
I ask some idea.
Well,we say that Hitler is shot in WW-I,nazism had not success,Weimar in someway is survived without become communist.
Mussolini is satisfied and sated with his little empire,and without nazi influence fascism is relatively less nasty.
Japan not want risk to fight a lonely war aganist USA and British Empire,so remains calm.
Stalin is taken to kill his comrades.
Ah...in someway the civil war in Spain not happen.

This is the premise.

So we have not a WW-II: what about United States in 40s and 50s?

1-Likely depression go on in early 40s (maybe less worse): is possible thet US is thoroughly out in 1945-46?

2-Is very probable that FDR don't run in 1940: who win,another Democratic ?
And is also probable that Republicans take the White House in some point of the 40s
In this case what name Dewey or Taft?

3-What about society?
We not have GI-Bill,so have just the same suburbs and commuter towns in 50s?
the phenomenon not happen or is postponed to another decade (70s,80s)?

4-We have a "baby boom" in 40s without WW-II?

5-Without the costs (and the taxes) for the cold war US citzen are more prosperous?

6-What happens about civil right?


Many thanks folks. ;)
 
Well frankly the POD means the Great Depression may very well never happen which has quite huge ramifications obviously.

If you keep it smaller, simply say Hitler is less lucky and gets quashed in the 1930s (EdT's "A Greater Britain" is a nice example of a small *WWII stopping Hitler before he starts) then I think you're other ideas, Mussolini focusing on befriending the West, Japan not risking it etc. are still very likely.

Without WWII, FDR would face heavy resistance if he tried to run for a third-term, which I doubt he would. On follow-up condidates, not sure.

Republican candidates for 1944, 48 - I think Harold Stassen is a candidate with a great deal of forgotten potential. Without WW2, he doesn't resign as Governor of Minnesota in '43 to join the military, and with it losing much of his political momentum. I think if Dewey fails in 1944, Governor Stassen is a shoe-in for the 1948 nomination
 
1-Likely depression go on in early 40s (maybe less worse): is possible thet US is thoroughly out in 1945-46?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here; if the Depression will be over by the mid-40s? It's difficult to say, given the OTL events! But I wouldn't say that it's particularly unlikely.

3-What about society?
We not have GI-Bill,so have just the same suburbs and commuter towns in 50s?
the phenomenon not happen or is postponed to another decade (70s,80s)?

The bigger thing is that the US will have fewer people with college degrees. We'll still have a lot, of course, just not as many. That means (especially since this scenario lacks the OTL brain drain that happened before and after the war) that Europe will remain a very important science center and won't have to rebuild to that status as it did IOTL, and so the US will be relatively less ahead in terms of scientific and engineering advancement.

5-Without the costs (and the taxes) for the cold war US citzen are more prosperous?

Actually, they're somewhat likely to be less relatively prosperous than IOTL. The war destroyed a vast amount of the world's productive capacity (artificially increasing demand for American goods) and at the same time expanded US productive capacity. That meant that there was a vast flood of consumer products after the war and high employment, while at the same time other nations that had been relatively nonindustrial before and especially after the war (Italy and Japan, in particular, but also France and Germany) were rapidly developing and demanding goods that could temporarily be more easily supplied by American industries.

However, other nations (in particular un- and under-developed nations) are likely to be more prosperous than IOTL, since decolonization will probably be slower and better thought out (slower is important because of how much the Europeans had screwed over their colonies beforehand in terms of education), and there won't be a Cold War to encourage various political splits, rebellions, and wars within the ex-colonies. In the long run, too, without the artificial conditions of the '50s and '60s that led American companies to become complacent and self-satisfied, and without the destruction of German and Japanese industry causing those countries to use the latest management practices and technology, the US will likely be a tad more prosperous, without some of the looming problems that confront us today (more domestic manufacturing, for instance).

So I'd see a world that isn't as rich in the '40s or '50s, but does catch up later on and ends up being a bit wealthier on average than OTL.

6-What happens about civil rights?

They'll happen eventually. No way segregation can continue forever, especially as blacks become more educated and decolonization progresses (eventually, someone from the NAACP or similar organizations is sure to point out that Africans in Africa are more free than blacks in the US!). They might be delayed by the absence of military desegregation (in the late '40s) and the humiliating experience of blacks in the military during WWII. Probably not all that much, though, especially as it was primarily legal moves early on (not social moves).
 
I am inclined to fall into the camp that says that the Depression will continue into the late 40's.

to he poster above.. NO WWII does not mean no depression since the depression started well before WWII :)

now no European full scale war would mean several things.

Cities will still be dominate in America. no baby boom means less americans.. Might also keep rail and local transist alive as well.

The baby Boom was a result of pent up sexual frustration from slugging out a war for 4 years.

Germany will collapse on itself if it doesnt get some out side help or fess up on the whole Nazi thing and become sane.

On the other hand, America will have allot more competition as the world hasn't been wracked by war. so you may see increased tensions between old world and new world. No Atomic Bombs (at least until the late 50's early 60's) Space flight might belong to the Germans. The Russians will be down to the last 19 of them since the 400th 5 year plan and purge will have killed just about everyone but them.

Colonialism may hold out longer in this time frame as well as segregation.


Does Roosevelt run again? yup.. does he win? maybe.. maybe not.. he was rather well liked.

I see America and maybe the world 20-25 years behind technologically
 
This an interesting question. In almost all respects, I suspect that the changes in US society that shaped the US Postwar world might not occur.

(1) The depression would continue into the 1940's but I suspect the FDR recovery programs would continue and be expanded. Their purpose was to put people back to work, not fix the basic economic issues that caused the depression, and the programs were very popular. The USA would become and remain slightly more leftist regarding the economiy.

(2) The USA would remain more isolationist and insular. Other than the Navy (which was always seen as pretty critical in protecting the USA), spending on the military would remain low. Without the demonstration of strategicairpower, a unified airforce would probably not come into existence.

(3) The Phillipines would be granted independence earlier as originally intended, and neither Alaska nor Hawaii would go so quickly on the statehood track. On the other hand, US imperialist tendencies in Lating America would be strengthened.

(4) The US would not become the world's militarily dominant power - only one of several fairly equal semi-super powers

(5) The baby boomer generation would be far smaller. The sexual revolution would be more limited and less pervasive. Overall the US would remain less well-educated without a GI Bill of Rights, and probably more socially conservative.

(6) Black segregation would be pervasive much longer.

(7) Most military technologies (radar, rocketry, aviation, nuclear power, etc) are retarded.

(8) Overall standard of living does not rise as it did in the 1950-60 period OTL. Fewer suburbs.

(9) Without vast expansion of aviation industry and infrastructure (airfields) caused by WW2, civil aviation will advance more slowly - might never become dominant in short and mid-range travel. Passenger rail survives as a viable means of transportation. Without all the massive war industries needing to survive the peacetime transition, no military-industrial complex develops.

(10) Good chance FDR would not run again in 1944
 
Yellow Peril and Red Menace

US would not be completely isolationist. It would still be very worried about the Japanese Empire and would spend enough on its armed forces esp. the navy to ensure victory over Japan. Likewise we would see a lot of worry about Communist subversion probably worse as we did not go through a period of being Stalin's ally.

There is at least one exception to the slower tech rule which is television which should catch on at least 3 years earlier.
 
Positively, there would be fewer of these awful highways, so less cars, more urban living, and better urban neighborhoods.

Civil rights might be easier without a Cold War and white flight, but maybe harder without military integration brought on by Korea.

Gay rights would develop differently without the military discharging large numbers of gay servicemembers in the same location. It might be more oriented towards individual rights rather than defending a 'community,' similar to how things worked out in Western Europe.

Without the GI Bill, the WASP establishment will maintain a grip on power much longer. Expect Social Registers to still matter in a big way.
 
(9) Without vast expansion of aviation industry and infrastructure (airfields) caused by WW2, civil aviation will advance more slowly - might never become dominant in short and mid-range travel. Passenger rail survives as a viable means of transportation. Without all the massive war industries needing to survive the peacetime transition, no military-industrial complex develops.

Also, the war was very hard on the railroads, both in the US and Europe. Obviously, in Europe they were bombed, but in both locations they were worn down to a nub by massive war demands on shipping and limited maintenance and repair capacity (most of that manufacturing was diverted to war materiel). No WWII means the physical plant is in much, much better shape, which will position the railroads far better for competition in the future. I still suspect that passenger railroads will relatively decline, at least in the US, with freight becoming the big deal, but between better equipment and infrastructure, and worse such for the competition...
 

FDW

Banned
Also, the war was very hard on the railroads, both in the US and Europe. Obviously, in Europe they were bombed, but in both locations they were worn down to a nub by massive war demands on shipping and limited maintenance and repair capacity (most of that manufacturing was diverted to war materiel). No WWII means the physical plant is in much, much better shape, which will position the railroads far better for competition in the future. I still suspect that passenger railroads will relatively decline, at least in the US, with freight becoming the big deal, but between better equipment and infrastructure, and worse such for the competition...

Yeah, you'd see a more slow drop-off ITTL rather than the near clean sweep we had after WW2 OTL. you'd probably see at least 2 dozen cities with sizable streetcar networks by TTL's 1960's, and many more cities with Electric Trolleybuses as well.
 
to he poster above.. NO WWII does not mean no depression since the depression started well before WWII :)

The OP mentions a WWI pod. I also answered in relation to simply no WWII, not the OP's original idea.

Gay rights would develop differently without the military discharging large numbers of gay servicemembers in the same location.
?

Could you explain this, I'm curious.*





*tee-hee-hee
.
 
Positively, there would be fewer of these awful highways, so less cars, more urban living, and better urban neighborhoods.

Fewer, yes, but not gone. The building of suburbs and roads began in the '20's. Primitive freeways were already starting in the 1930's. The Streetcar Scandal had also started by then.

You still have the 'agrarian' ideals that makes Americans want to push out into rural areas and buy that big house in the country with lots of land as soon as they get rich. You still have the individualism which makes Americans think that they will do better off living out on their own. You still have pressures pushing people out of the city, like pollution, crowds and traffic. I doubt that 'white flight' would go away completely if there's still growing industrialization in the northern cities combined with poor economic conditions in the south.

The only thing you are missing is the population boom which makes all this happen as quickly as it did.
 
What about television?
I think that start before (maybe regular programs from 1941).
In a United States without WW-II development is the same that in OTL,more fast,more slow?

Without WW-II what about air transport?
chances for seaplanes and airships?

(about this i have found these things:

http://books.google.it/books?id=q0k...&resnum=2&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.it/books?id=pks...&resnum=5&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.it/books?id=8Uk...&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

And the year is 1945;after the war; so what without a war)?
 
What about television?
I think that start before (maybe regular programs from 1941).
In a United States without WW-II development is the same that in OTL,more fast,more slow?

Without WW-II what about air transport?
chances for seaplanes and airships?

(about this i have found these things:

http://books.google.it/books?id=q0k...&resnum=2&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.it/books?id=pks...&resnum=5&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.it/books?id=8Uk...&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

And the year is 1945;after the war; so what without a war)?

Naval warfare evolves more slowly. Battleships remain all the rage, and aircraft carriers are improbable without the utilization of combat aircraft, which likely fails to occur if there is not a Second World War.
 
(1) The depression would continue into the 1940's but I suspect the FDR recovery programs would continue and be expanded. Their purpose was to put people back to work, not fix the basic economic issues that caused the depression, and the programs were very popular. The USA would become and remain slightly more leftist regarding the economiy.

I dunno. Remember in OTL there was significant recovery by 1937 and 1938, but the decision to raise interest rates and cut deficit spending meant that the situation worsened.

And as for everyone who thinks a Europe that's not a smoking crater means the US will be poorer: America's biggest trading partners are not subsaharan a
African states. They are places that can afford to buy US products and vice versa.
 
And as for everyone who thinks a Europe that's not a smoking crater means the US will be poorer: America's biggest trading partners are not subsaharan African states. They are places that can afford to buy US products and vice versa.

It'll be poorer relative to the rest of the world (mostly because the rest of the world, ie. Europe and Japan, will be richer), and European products will be much better able to compete in their own countries and elsewhere without WWII and its artificial boosting of America's relative economic position. It will probably be a tad bit richer in the long run, though, especially in absolute terms.
 
Top