USA annexes Canada

What if the American Revolutionary War was more successful for the Americans and they also got Quebec and Nova Scotia? They would no doubt later expand into the rest of modern day Canada. How would this change the US? Would Quebec stay a loyal state? Would it become and remain a bilingual state? How would the new lands(all Canada) be partitioned into states and territories and how would it look on the map? Would Quebec be renamed Canada again or would it include Ontario?
 
New York City is much smaller and Seattle fails to develop while the 1784 vote on the expansion of Slavery fails, likely meaning the institution itself dies a "natural" death in the long run and thus you avoid the American Civil War.
 
Quebec is named the state Canada. It keeps its French identity much like otl.

Otl Ontario may be two states. South Ontario is much like otl.

West and North Ontario may become like Oklahoma, a large Indian reservation for NE Indians and eventually becomes its own state.

49th parallel is still good dividing line of states.

Rocky mts still good to $3034153 British Columbia and Albertake, both of which have different names.

Saskatchewan and Manitoba may stay the same.

PEI is part of NS. NB may be as well.

NF may remain British but Lab is part of Canada.

Actually, the shapes of states in the lower 48 may change. North Dakota and South Dakota may be one.

With no ACW, Nevada and Utah shapes could change.

Other butterflies may be
USA acquires Cuba sooner to help balance slave and free states

USA takes more of mex. Not all of mex, but more of Chihuahua and Sonora.

Also, who says TX comes in at one state. Could be two or three.
 
It keeps its French identity much like otl.

I think so, but it would be rockier than OTL. Recall that IOTL Louisiana pursues a policy that discouraged the French language and disenfranchised French speakers. Of course, Quebec is more Francophone than Louisiana ever was, so I don’t think such a policy would have the same effect, but it would lead to widespread resent of the Americans.
 
Keep in mind at the time Ontario and Quebec were called upper and lower Canada respectively. I agree Lower Canada May keep the name Quebec, but Upper Canada likely becomes just Canada. Alternatively they could easily remain Upper and Lower Canada.

The original borders of the Canada's would likely be the state borders, I disagree with hzn5pk that what is modern north Ontario would become Indian Territory. The Province of upper Canada wasn't as big as modern day and if the Americans do purchase Rupert's Land [which could become Rupert's Territory] the trail of tears would have already happened, with the Canadian Natives being added in.

Everything outside of the original borders of upper and lower Canada would be Rupert's Land, owned by the Hudson's bay. I might be able to see this become American if the Americans offer enough for it, but the British North-Western Territory [Modern Yukon, NW Territories, Northeast Nunavut mainland and Northern Alberta] would be unlikely. It is desolate, and the Americans wouldn't accept any price the British demand, hell, it's doubtful that the Americans would even want it.

At the time, Nova Scotia was OTL New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, minus Cape Breton ,which would be added onto NS in 1820. ITTL, The British likely keep a hold of Cape Breton and PEI and they likely become provinces of the Dominion of Newfoundland. The Labrador dispute probably doesn't happen ITTL, the dispute originally started as a result of a poorly defined border of the Labrador Coast. This timeline likely see's the UK being more clear and Labrador remains as is.

The Treaty of 1818 still happens, with the British marking off Rupert's land from the US, but the border in Oregon county might be in favor of the British. One of the deals for the sale of Rupert's Land might be the British Claims to the Columbia River Border for British Columbia. The British North-Western Territory is transferred to British Columbia and we likely see a Dominion of British Columbia. Likely featuring a later name change [Mackenzie, Fraser, Columbia?] While the British Arctic Territory is likely transferred to Newfoundland.

Manitoba would still be a province, though it might remain smaller than OTl, closer to it's original borders. and the Prairie Provinces would be likely different because there were many proposals for the division ranging from one super province, to 4 small ones. I think that due to American standards on State populations, we might see a single super province. This America would likely still have Mainland Territories, Keewatin from modern north Manitoba and Ontario, and Unguva from Northeast Quebec

The Americans would likely admit Texas as multiple states to attempt to balance the Slave-Free states. But the Civil War would likely still occur.
 
The loyalists won't flee to South Africa, so no Draka. They'd possibly flee to the Caribbean or settle further West, that could cause problems with the native American tribes starting wars earlier.
 
I doubt if the 49th parallel would remain a border. Remember that border was drawn to provide British North America access to the Pacific Ocean. Those white men - who drew the border - never walked the ground and they were thousands of miles away when they drew that simple straight line. The 49th parallel meets the Pacific Ocean just a few miles south of the mouth of the Frazer River. The Fraser a River is the most southerly of the only 3.5 ports on the West Coast of Canada.

Speaking of straight borders, provincial borders would be radically different on the Canadian Prairie Provinces. First, the borders of Oregon, Idaho, Montana and the Dakotas would extend farther North. For example, all of the Columbia River Basin would be in the same state. The northern border would be along the tree-line. Ontario/Upper Canada would be divided into two or three states: southern agricultural, northern logging, Clay Belt, etc.
Maritime Provinces would remain small and continue trading with New England.
Speaking of trade, the Port of Montreal would be the big winner as it quickly eclipsed New York/New Amsterdam. The Lachine Canal would be dug earlier and wider. With access to all the Great Lakes it would share farm exports with the Mississippi River. The Chicago Sanitary Canal would be dig earlier and wider.
Working-class barge men would chatter amongst themselves in a French-Spanish-English patois, but ships' officers would speak English.
 
The loyalists won't flee to South Africa, so no Draka. They'd possibly flee to the Caribbean or settle further West, that could cause problems with the native American tribes starting wars earlier.

I doubt they’d settle further west, as the whole point of leaving is to stay within British territory, after all.

They could perhaps move to Florida, where there historically was a Loyalist community. Newfoundland may be retained in this scenario, so that’s another possibility.
 
What if the American Revolutionary War was more successful for the Americans and they also got Quebec and Nova Scotia? They would no doubt later expand into the rest of modern day Canada. How would this change the US? Would Quebec stay a loyal state? Would it become and remain a bilingual state? How would the new lands(all Canada) be partitioned into states and territories and how would it look on the map? Would Quebec be renamed Canada again or would it include Ontario?
How did Quebec come in?
If they were claimed as some sort of prize, roped into it because Nova Scotia was going, or roped into it because the Americans were just that good at negotiating then I doubt the Canadiens will long remain in the United States.
If peace had been made with the Iroquois, if Montgomery conducts his occupation with a noble administration, if two more regiments of men volunteer for the Patriot cause; then yes, the Canadiens would be quite happy to be part of the United States.

I expect the Canadiens will side quite strongly with states rights vs central government, but I don't think they would oppose the Hamilton/American System either. There is going to be a push for the Canadiens to cede a lot of their hinterland as territory. I am not sure that Montreal will remain in the same state as Quebec City if enough immigration happens to OTL southern Ontario.
 

Manman

Banned
I think that Canada would have less people. Considering the Its part of the USA more people would travel south do to the open border and more space down south.
 
IIRC, Most of the loyalists during the revolution were in the south. I'd imagine we would see a split here ,with the Southern Loyalists fleeing to Florida and the Northern Loyalists fleeing to the remaining Canadian Maritimes, most likely Cape Breton.
 
More contact with the Catholics of Canada would probably make the "All Mexico" movement, presuming that war still happens, an even easier sell.
All of Mexico proposition was rejected because the vast majority of Mexicans are mestizos and Amerindians, not because they are Catholic. Read what Calhoun had to say about it.
 
New York City is much smaller and Seattle fails to develop while the 1784 vote on the expansion of Slavery fails, likely meaning the institution itself dies a "natural" death in the long run and thus you avoid the American Civil War.
Why NYC is smaller and Seattle fails to develop? And what about the vote on slavery?
 
PEI is part of NS. NB may be as well.

Small contention on this point, but PEI (called St John's Island at that point) had recently been spun off as its own colony just before the revolution. In any scenario where the Americans are wildly more successful and take all of OTL Canada from the start, I can't imagine the people on the island would accept losing their new autonomy. They'd demand to be a state like all the other former colonies, and considering how small Rhode Island or Delaware are size wouldn't really be an issue.

Also, even though New Brunswick was still part of Nova Scotia at that time, I'm not sure it would always remain that way. While it's true that it wouldn't receive an influx of British loyalists in this timeline, its population would still steadily grow with time and its regional identity would still remain. I could easily imagine the general area being spun off into an extra free state similar to Maine next door. It would have to have a different name though, maybe Acadia after the old colony.

Edit: Also remembered that PEI/St. John's was almost renamed to "New Ireland" before the revolution, but the idea was shot down by the British authorities. Maybe shortly after independence the new state would be able to adopt the name after all.
 
All of Mexico proposition was rejected because the vast majority of Mexicans are mestizos and Amerindians, not because they are Catholic. Read what Calhoun had to say about it.

My point was that it would make them more culturally familiar. As far as the All Mexico movement, Calhoun's stance was actually more based on a defense of slavery than a stance of racial purity, and he was actually in the minority; had the treaty been late to arrive, the All Mexico movement would've succeeded.

Why NYC is smaller and Seattle fails to develop? And what about the vote on slavery?

What really got NYC big was the Erie Canal, but such would be unnecessary here due to American control of the St. Lawrence River, which stays ice free longer and can handle more traffic. As for Seattle, Vancouver is the superior port, so Seattle mainly sprung up just because the border was there. With regards to the Slavery bit, in 1784 there was a measure that failed by one vote about letting slavery spread Westwards into the territories.
 
My point was that it would make them more culturally familiar. As far as the All Mexico movement, Calhoun's stance was actually more based on a defense of slavery than a stance of racial purity, and he was actually in the minority; had the treaty been late to arrive, the All Mexico movement would've succeeded.



What really got NYC big was the Erie Canal, but such would be unnecessary here due to American control of the St. Lawrence River, which stays ice free longer and can handle more traffic. As for Seattle, Vancouver is the superior port, so Seattle mainly sprung up just because the border was there. With regards to the Slavery bit, in 1784 there was a measure that failed by one vote about letting slavery spread Westwards into the territories.
There would still be a need for canal building to connect it to all the great lakes. Do you think there would be a sizeable migration from New England and Europe to Montreal and Quebec City and how would that change them? What about the rural areas of Quebec? Quebec province initially included Ontario. Would they make Ontario into a separate state and what about the name Canada? Would Quebec or Ontario be named Canada? And I don't know what chances the All Mexico movement had, but if it succeeded, than the US would have to deal with an insurgency in Mexico.
 
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