USA and Africa in the Fox and The Eagle Timeline

stalkere

Banned
OK, Developing a TL, need some comments, maybe some research help.

Basic storyline is here; The Fox and the Eagle; I tried to do something a little different with the standard ISOT story
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=137725

1803- C-17 with one load of 101st Air Assault troops lands at OTL Muroc Dry Lake. I've worked pretty hard on the load out and the people - please don't tell me about implausibility of the skill sets until you read it, and probably not then either - the characters are all based on folks I was flying with on a mission a few years back. Well no, scratch that - please comment - but realize that I will probably quote you back the real person I based that on. I tried hard to limit the Handwavium to a bare minimum. but if you find some - or think you find some - feel free to raise the bullshit flag.

1804 - quiet development of steampower, refining sulfuric acid/nitric acid and mineral deposits. (Lot more than just gold in them thar hills)
The gold mined by the Eagles is quietly used to buy up the Missions and mortgages sold off by the Spanish government in California, thus preventing unrest.
In the meantime, a quiet recruiting campaign is moving among the unemployed in old Mexico, and men and families are moving to the lure of employment in this place called California.

1805 - String of missions spread out along Pacific Coast, establishing Spanish prescence up to Nootka Bay. Policy will become known as "Boots on the Ground".
This Spanish presence will be in place to greet the American Corps of Exploration as they paddle down the Columbia River. Members of Los Aquilas, the California Guardia Nacional, will meet them, and guide them to Mission San Christopher (OTL Astoria) They will rest, and catch a ship that will take them along the coast, and down to old Mexico, where they will go from (where?) Tehuantepec to Veracruz and catch a ship back to the US.

A diplomatic mission sent to the Spanish King in 1804 has paid off, and California has permission to trade with the Russian American Company.

1806 Nokolai Rezanov shows up in San Francisco harbor and sucessfully negotiates a deal to obtain food and supplies for the Russian Colony in Aleyaska. the beginnings of a long and mutually beneficial relationship begins.

1807 - a lot of continued development as people and material continue to flow toward California - but as long as the proper tax payments come back, the bureaucrats in Mexico City are happy.

1808 - King Charles IV abdicates in favor of his son. But instead of fleeing to France, he decides to do something different, and another huge change is set onto this world. In a story that will excite romance Novelists for centuries, the 60 year old King takes the disguise of a wealthy businessman and travels to the New World.
An avid huntsman, he has decided that he will see with his own eyes, this enormous Empire that he has ruled for so long.
The disguise is thin, but the Peninsulares of Mexico are so overjoyed to see the (former) King visiting them that they honor his wish of remaining incognito.
Until the news arrives that the French have invaded, and further news that Ferdinand has been deposed, and Bonaparte's Brother is the new King.
King Charles throws off his disguise (quite threadbare by now) and declares himself King again. But now he calls for the subjects of the Empire to rise and drive out the French.
For a Reconquista.
It is a request with power to stir the blood.
 

stalkere

Banned
So - I'm no expert on the Peninsular War - but I'll bet some of YOU guys are.

and, I can't seem to lay hands on much information on shipping in the carribean/Gulf of Mexico for this period.

Reasonably speaking, how much of a force can we transport from Mexico to Spain in 1808? It looks like the British put about 20,000 troops into portugal in June and July of 1808.

Would it be ASB for the Reconquista to put into Portugal say, 20,000 troops by, say, September 1808?

These would be troops armed with something much like the Civil War Enfield Musket with a Minie ball in a linen cartridge and a Potassium Perchlorate cap.

Their artillery would probably be Bronze Napoleans - but mostly cartridge ammunition, case shot and shrapnel - don't think that's available yet.

And yes, I realize that these folks will be sailing this fleet through Hurricane season.
with no sattelite coverage.
although good barometers may be of some assistance.
 

stalkere

Banned
Sept 1808 - The New Spanish Army under General Torcuato Trujillo lands in Portugal and begins moving forward to reinforce the British and Portugeuese.

These new troops are viewed with a bit of wonderment - but the Grand Armee is coming, and every bit will help.

Ok - advice time, guys - these are mostly guys that were civilians a few months ago. This is an ACW type situation, with untested troops. They have better weapons, buy they are facing veterans with weapons that are not THAT inferior.

How feasible is it to go for mounted rifles? Shipping horses across the Atlantic on a sailing ship in any quantity just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Are there enough horses to mount these guys?

They should be decent horsemen, as opposed to the average Spanish peasent. The idea of having a bunch of riflemen that can ride in, fire off a bunch of rounds and get out of Dodge fast - that SEEMS like it ought to have some significant military value.

General Trujillo is backed up by two very young Colonels - Colonel Vega, and Colonel Itubide. There are some noses out of joint, but these two youngsters rack up some impressive victories. Their hard-marching, fast moving style is considered impossible by the French - until the Nuevos show up.

More and more Nuevo forces pour in from the Spanish Colonies as they respond to King Charles' call. Simon Bolivar leads one of the forces as does, General Carlos Jose Belgrano.

At first, only the Mexican forces are armed with the new rifles. But war is more than weapons.

The Nuevos - and soon - the rest of the Spanish Forces, soon learn to listen very carefully to anything the really strange Mexicans - the Californios - have to say.
and then there are the stories - the ones that the men tell around the fires at night. Late at night. Of the the strangest Californios of all.
Los Aquilas.
Men with glowing eyes that can see in the darkest night and walk silently as a ghost.
Men that can walk up a sheer cliff like a spider and fly like birds.
But everyone knows these are mere tales to frighten the stupid.

Balloons and spark-coherer radios help as much as they can, as do heliographs whenever the weather is good enough.
 
These would be troops armed with something much like the Civil War Enfield Musket with a Minie ball in a linen cartridge and a Potassium Perchlorate cap.
I have no ploblem with your men haveing any skill set you want.
However one planeload of men is not enuff to build the nessacary infrastructure to produce Enfield Muskets in only 5 years.
 

stalkere

Banned
I have no ploblem with your men haveing any skill set you want.
However one planeload of men is not enuff to build the nessacary infrastructure to produce Enfield Muskets in only 5 years.

Well - I'd agree, if we're only talking one plane load.

But they're taking over a society. i.e., they're not building the musket themselves. The gunsmiths and manufacturing capability is there, it needs to be turned in the direction it needs to go.

OTL Ernie Hudson was a re-enactor, and a darn good machinist - he could make an Enfield - with a halfway decent machine shop.

Now he's modifying a Charleville Arsenal in Mexico ITTL to do something similar, but on a grand scale, and teaching the folks to make them on an industrial process ala Eli Whitney.
 
On the enfield, remember the British rifle regiments were fielding Baker rifles. The only thing keeping the baker from being weapon of the line was the lack of the minie bullet, Your lads would fit right in with the British Green Jacket troops. I wouldn't worry about horses. IIRC, Spanish roads were awful. I'd have your troops adopt the Rifle regiments' SOP "The need to move quickly in recce or rearguard actions, or to form a screen, required fast marching and occasional double marching. As compared to the regular infantry pace of 120 per minute, the Rifle pace is 140 per minute. On ceremonial parades march pasts are done in both quick and double time, the latter 180 paces to the minute."

http://mymilitaryhistorypages.bravehost.com/BritishRangerandRifleUnits.htm

In fact, your NSA shares many traits in common with the Light (Infantry) Brigade (see link above). "The Light Brigade was trained to carry out tactical recce and to cover both the advance and retreat of an army (both heretofore traditional horse cavalry roles)," The LBs only problem was its riflemen with out the minie bullet couldn't fire fast enough to be line formations. See the ACW, for what happened when rifles with minie bullets could take their place on the line of battle.

The rifle regiments of the Light Brigade were very active during the Peninsular Campaign. The Royal; Green Jacket Regiment celebrates the Battle of Salamanca on its regimental day.

Hope this helps.
 

stalkere

Banned
Not that I don't like this or anything, I love it, but should this not be moved to ASB?

Well - I would, but the only ASB is the original ISOT. Ever go into the ASB forum? Try to discuss a timeline down there, and pretty soon I'd have folks having dragon riding orcs and vampires carrying Zombie Napolean off.
 
Well - I would, but the only ASB is the original ISOT. Ever go into the ASB forum? Try to discuss a timeline down there, and pretty soon I'd have folks having dragon riding orcs and vampires carrying Zombie Napolean off.
I spend about 20% of my time there. That said there is still an ISOT, therefore it is automatically ASB. Yes that is the only ASB element but it is still ASB
 

stalkere

Banned
I spend about 20% of my time there. That said there is still an ISOT, therefore it is automatically ASB. Yes that is the only ASB element but it is still ASB


Hokay.

Took it down to the comments section in the writer's area. feel free to close or remove this thread, or just let it age off, whatever.
 
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