US/Western Support of Apartheid South Africa and (maybe) Rhodesia

There is a horrible joke that I feel is appropriate now.

Old black veteran of the Rhodesian bush war is sitting in his government-supplied house, whiling away the hours as he is unemployed. Suddenly the lightbulb flickers and comes on for the first time in months. He then hears a rumbling in the pipes and turns the tap in his kitchen on, and is surprised to see water coming out (again something that hasn't happened for months). His neighbour then barges into his house and announces breathlessly: 'Come outside, there's a truck handing out food parcels.'

The old man sets his jaw, and says grimly to his wife: 'Umfazi, fetch me my panga. The whites have taken over again.'
Damn.
 
Isn't this actually sorta OTL? The US supporting apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia?
Because that's one thing that Mulroney got into fights with Reagan and Thatcher over...
 
it is my understanding that Thatcher really wanted to recognise Muzorewa but was actually overruled by Nyerere of Tanzania, Kaunda of Zambia, and even Jimmy Carter/Andy Young on the grounds that Muzorewa did not fully represent all blacks in Rhodesia and his administration still had Ian Smith's people in it. Nyerere and Kaunda were quite influential and had a lot of clout in Third World politics back in the day. Had Reagan been president in 1976 -1979, he probably would have recognised Muzorewa along with Thatcher and the rest of the world would follow along, albeit reluctantly. Comments?
 
..... I don't see how the fall of a racist [pick your favourite skin colour said:
state that stole peoples land is a tragedy. ........
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Were you referring to Australia? .....
Britain? ......
Canada? ....
France? ....
Germany?......
Huns? ....
Japan? ..... (again, a narrowly-focussed definition of "correct" skin colour)
Langobards? .....
Maori? ......
Newfoundland? .....
Ostrogoths? .....
Persia? .....
Rome? .......
Serbia? .....
United States of America? .....
Visigoths? ......
Zulu? ..... (another narrow definition of "correct" skin colour)
 
Isn't this actually sorta OTL? The US supporting apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia?
Because that's one thing that Mulroney got into fights with Reagan and Thatcher over...

The US did directly support South Africa, and the CIA did some direct support of Rhodesia. That said in Rhodesia's case concerns over the British reaction to direct support kept it covert and almost none existent. They got more support from the Portuguese then they did from the United states, although some of that support could be classified as indirect american support for the regime as the Portuguese were allowed to use Nato stocks for their colonial wars.

it is my understanding that Thatcher really wanted to recognise Muzorewa but was actually overruled by Nyerere of Tanzania, Kaunda of Zambia, and even Jimmy Carter/Andy Young on the grounds that Muzorewa did not fully represent all blacks in Rhodesia and his administration still had Ian Smith's people in it. Nyerere and Kaunda were quite influential and had a lot of clout in Third World politics back in the day. Had Reagan been president in 1976 -1979, he probably would have recognised Muzorewa along with Thatcher and the rest of the world would follow along, albeit reluctantly. Comments?

I was under the impression that Ian Smith had offended just about everyone in Britain, including Thatcher, and so the entire British establishment wanted him gone. Muzorewa was linked with him and so tarred with the same brush. That said the end of the conflict isn't something I've read about extensively, and most of my books on that period are still in storage, so take what i say with a grain of salt. Carter pressuring in favor of Mugabe, that is wholly believable, especially with the way that ZAPU and the Ndebele were screwed over in the peace settlement.

If Muzorewa did succeed in getting recognition, thats going to make things interesting. How will he navigate between the Shona/Ndebele fight that was brewing, along with all of the other Tribes and the white minority. He might end up relying on the white minority to stabilize the situation militarily and keep the Shona and Ndebele from deciding to settle their political differences with force thereby discrediting his rule. Then you have to wonder who would take over after him.
 
Honestly, I don't think either nation has/had a significant enough world impact to change anything outside of their region.
 
It's Africa, but they are on the border of Zaire. If they work with Portugal and help out the FNLC with the Shaba rebellions that could have a major effect on the cold war due to Zaire's importance. Not to mention that a more aggressive policy in Zambia could have resulted in a Soviet/Chinese confrontation developing in Africa, which would have made things interesting especially if it was viewed as a continuation and expansion of the Sino/Soviet border wars and a more active version of their split.

There is also the implications of South Africa and Rhodesia developing faster and further then they did OTL with US assistance giving them a greater amount of economic development after the cold war. That could have an impact in the nineties, certainly in Africa but possibly beyond it. Especially in the middle east, india, and south america. Perhaps the weapons industry in south africa develops further and becomes a competitor for Israel?
 
If the Cold War heats up during the late 60s early 70s rather than the detente of Nixon, South Africa could be seen as a much more strategic partner of the West. For instance, if the Soviets intervene during the Yom Kippur War and Egypt remains firmly pro-Soviet leading to a longer closure of the Suez Canal, shipping from Asia to Europe will have to sail around the Cape. This might even lead the Brits to renew the Simonstown Agreement past 1975.

After 1975, the departure of Portugal from Angola and Mozambique removed an important buffer from both Rhodesia and South Africa. The Portuguese presence in Angola protected Southwest Africa (Namibia) and Mozambique of course acted as a buffer for Rhodesia. I imagine that the U.S. would have to actively intervene to either support the Portuguese more whole-hardheartedly or help install some pro-Western regimes in both countries immediately after 1974. Butterflying away Jimmy Carter would also be important as his presidency was not as cozy with South Africa and the Rhodesian government. Nixon's foreign policy led by Henry Kissinger was more than willing to accept the two nations as being better alternatives to possibly Communist or even Non-Aligned regimes.

There were several ways in which the United States could assist South Africa and Rhodesia, first and foremost would be to veto any resolutions in the UN which could be construed as being too harsh to either country. With regards to armaments, IOTL there were weapons smuggling deals where Rhodesia was trying to acquire F-86 aircraft from Venezuela. The US government could have simply looked the other way and feigned ignorance when these weapons arrived. Of all of the Western Countries, France was the most willing to sell armaments to South Africa (Mirage III) and perhaps the U.S. could encourage the French to maintain aircraft sales to SA.
 
Top