US politics in a Nazis Win TL

[David bar Elias]

World Commeanwealth Members (1960)*

United States of America
Republic of Canada
Federation of Australia
Federation of India
Kingdom of Nepal
Kingdom of Bhutan
Republic of Kenya
Republic of Nigeria
Republic of Belize
Republic of the Bahamas
Republic of Jamaica
Republic of Ireland
Republic of Sri Lanka
Federation of Malaysia
Republic of Singapore
Republic of New Guinea
Free United Kingdom

*The World Commonwalth also holds jurisdiction over Bermuda, the Falkland Islands, the Cayman Islands, Monseratt, St. Helena, the Maldives, the Saloman Islands, the British Virgin Islands, Fiji, Tonga, and Kiribati. In the cases of Fiji, the Salomans, and Tonga, it's until they acheive responsible self-government and passable living conditions.

The World Comonwealth is chaired by the Honorable Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill. The Commonwealth Parliament is based in Nassau, where members vote on policy decisions and foreign policy goals are discussed (aka, where aid to the independence movements in Africa and the Middle East is directed from).

Currently, the World Commonwealth is aiding Kwame Nkrumah's movement in the Gold Coast (now the Republic of Ghana), along with the Italians in Ethiopia and Tunisia, Gamel Abdul Nasser's movement in Egypt, and the various cells operating in Palestine (both Jewish and Arab) against the "Appeasment British" occuptation. Heavy aide has also found its way to the African National Congress, operating againt the Union of South Africa. Hell is being raised againt Portugal in Angola and Mozambique.

The Commonwealth Games occur every year. In 1960, the games will be held in Singapore. India is expected to dominate (as usual) in cricket.

 

[General_Paul]

By 1950, we're going to definately be involved in a heated cold war between the UN/World Commonwealth and the USA, versus the remaining Axis Pact Nations.

Axis Pact Nations circa 1950-

Nazi Germany- Founding Member, 1936
Italy- Founding Member, 1936
Rumania- Joining Date: 1940
Bulgaria- Joining Date: 1940
Nationalist Spain- Joining Date: 1944
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland- Joining Date: 1946
Vichy France- Joining Date: 1945
Republic of Finland: Joining Date: 1942
Republic of Norway: Joining Date- 1947
Union of South Africa: Joining Date- 1946, came in with the UK
Republic of Portugal: Joining Date- 1948

Neutral Nations:

Republic of Turkey
Switzerland
Republic of Sweden

List of Reichskommissariats circa 1950:

Reichskommissariat Muskovy
Reichskommissariat Caucus
Reichskommissariat Leningrad
Reichskommissariat Trans-Ural
Reichskommissariat White Russia
Reichskommissariat Ukraine
Reichskommissariat Baku
Reichskommissariat Krakaw
Reichskommissariat Warsaw
Reichskommissariat Palestine
Reichskommissariat Trans-Jordan
Reichskommissariat Syria
Reichskommissariat Suez
Reichskommissariat Aegyptus

Occupied Zones:

Norther France- Western Army Headquarters in Paris, considered "Reichskommissariat Frankenreich" in the UN Security Council.
Yugoslavia- Second Army/Balkans Army Headquarters in Belgrade, considered "Reichskommissariat Yugoslavia" in the UN Security Council.
Greece- Third Army Headquarters in Athens, considered "Reichskommissariat Helena" in the UN Security Council.
Iraq- Fourth Army/Middle Eastern Army Headquarters in Baghdad, considered "Reichskommissariat Baghdad" in the UN Security Council.
Baltic States- First Army/Northern Army Headquarters in Riga, Estonia, considered "Reichskommissariat Baltic" in the UN Security Council.

All Occupation zones are considered Reichskommissariats by the UN Security Council, however have not been declared as such by the Wermacht, or central German government in Berlin.

 

[David bar Elias]

A few Heads of State, 1961:

United States of America-President Lyndon Baines Johnson
Republic of Canada-Prime Minister John Diefenbaker
Federation of India-Jawaharlal Nehru
Federation of Australia-Sir Robert Menzies
Republic of Brazil-President Joao Goulart
Republic of China-President Chaing Kai-Shek

Greater German Reich: Reichfuher Heinrich Himmler

 

[luakel]

Africa- The way things went in Russia, and most likely in North Africa, most of Africa down to Italian Somaliland will be a large grouping of Reichskommissratt's, rather than as independent states, to allow the Germans more free access to the rest of Africa. In the south, the remnant French West African colonial empire will likely be propped up by the USA and its allies in India and Canada, with the old democratic French government moving from London after the peace settlement between Britain and Germany, to one of two places: Brazzaville in French West Africa (the most developed area I believe), or moving to New York.

If they move to Brazzaville, they can be closer to the action, and show a strong united face alongside their colonial subjects.

If they move to New York, they're much closer to President Roosevelt and the United States military who can provide the Free French forces with the material support necessary to begin the liberation of North Africa. It could go either way in my mind.

Well, Vichy France should still exist, and they control most of the Free French colonial empire outside of Chad, Gabon, and Cameroon (which was a German colony pre-WWI so they'd likely want it back for reasons of pride). In other words, their holdings in Africa are minimal. So I'd say they go to New York or (if you want to make things interesting) Montreal. Also, I'd expect Syria and Iraq to be German allies.

Plus, could the Axis Pact become "Danzig Pact", or something like that? And Algeria/Morrocco wouldn't be German Reichskommissariats, they'd still be French.

 

[David bar Elias]

It could be the Iron Pact......

 

[General_Paul]

Well, Vichy France should still exist, and they control most of the Free French colonial empire outside of Chad, Gabon, and Cameroon (which was a German colony pre-WWI so they'd likely want it back for reasons of pride). In other words, their holdings in Africa are minimal. So I'd say they go to New York or (if you want to make things interesting) Montreal. Also, I'd expect Syria and Iraq to be German allies.

Plus, could the Axis Pact become "Danzig Pact", or something like that? And Algeria/Morrocco wouldn't be German Reichskommissariats, they'd still be French.

True, so I'll drop Reichskommissariats Algeria and Morocco. Syria and Iraq are a bit different situations- Both have access to very large ammounts of oil, were former assets of the French and British, and important lynch pins in transportation networks, thus I'd assume that the Germans would have manpower on the ground in both regions to secure their control over the region, even if just alongside Vichy French and Appeasement British forces.

Well, the Free French are screwed then if the Vichy drove down and took most of the Free French colonial empire, but I guess that it's to be assumed in times of war.

I don't expect that it'd turn into the Danzig Pact, rather the name "Axis Pact" or "International Brotherhood of National Socialism" would be elected for the European nations involved with the Germans.

 

[David bar Elias]

Hope you don't mind, Paul....

1961

1961 saw a world sharply devided in two, with no real room for any sort of nuetrality (although several European states tried their hardest to do just that). The American-led UN/World Commonwealth glared across oceans and continents at the Greater German Reich and its puppet "Brotherhood of National Socialism."

The "Brotherhood" had many problems in 1961. Despite its aura of omnipitance and grandiose power, its members were being bloodied in several major conflicts. South Africa's Apartheid government was facing harsh uprsings and riots being fomented by African National Congress. The notorious massacres against thousands in innocent civilians at Sharpville, Mbane, Maseru, Gabrone, and Cape Town would all occur this year, but the resistance continued. ANC leaders Nelson Mandela and Steven Biko would continue to elude capture, even as they orchestrated daring attacks against the National Pary regeime in Johannesburg, which culminated in a massive car bomb attack against the South African Parliament on July 3, which killed Prime Minister Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd. In retaliation, the South African army raised the Johnessburg Townships, killing almost 25,000 black South Africans. But the campaign for freedom would continue.

In the Gold Coast, Kwame Nkrumah continued a campaign of massive civil dissobedience against the Appeasment British. Similar campaigns began in Tanganyka (now the Republic of Tanzania), Uganda, Kuwait, and the Trucial States (now the United Arab Emirates).

In Ethiopia, the democratic Lions of Judah and the Marxist United Front were reluctently coordinating their previously seperate campaigns of terror against the Italians. Gamel Abdul Nasser and Anwar Sadat continued a campaign of terror against the occupying Appeasment British and German forces. In Palestine, the few remaining Jews and Arabs continued their raids against the occupying Appeasment British and Germans. The Vichy French faced vicious attacks from Algerian and Morrocan guerillas. Portugal faced massive resistance in both Angola and Mozambique, with Maputo and Luanda both turning in warzones by the start of 1961. Spain was being underminded by covert UN/World Commonwealth aid to Basque and Catalan separatists. And in European Russia, Germany faced harsh partisan attacks, gleefully aided by the rump USSR west of the Urals. The former Yugoslavia remained a black hole that sucked in Axis lives, as Serbain partisans, under the combined commands of both Marshall Tito and General Mikhailovich, waged harsh war against the Italians, Germans, and the Croatian Ushtashe.

The members of the UN and the World Commonwealth were far more sedeate internally, although the Germans did their best to stir up trouble between Muslims and Hindus in the Indian Federation, and to aide the quiet facist movment that still resided in Argentina even after Juan and Evita Peron's destruction at the hands of the Brazilians in the late 1940s.

The United States was feeling the full effects of the Civil Rights Act of 1953, as a new generation of African-Americans took to the forefront of American public life. Despite rumblings from the South. Rumblings were all that came, as the Federal Government had ruthlessly crushed groups such as the Ku Klux Klan in the 1950s.

America was changing demographically. Immigration had been reformed in the mid-fifties, allowing for a much greater number of people to move to the USA. Along with the Jewish refugees who had managed to trickle out of the German East, and the Arab refugees from the Middle East, greater numbers of Latin Americans and Asians were settling in America.

American education had become extremely oriented towards math, science, and technology, as the USA and the rest of the UN/World Commonwealth rushed to copete with the German space program.

The member-states of the UN/World Commonwealth were realizing the bounty the Kaynesian economic programs which had helped to greatly reduce poverty in Asia and Latin America. The sixties would see the establishement of the World Trade Organization and the World Economic Forum, which would assist in breaking down trade barriers between the UN member states.

Thus, the world was slidy split between light and dark. The Cold War showed no signs of ebbing.

And soon, the Cold War would be moving into the last frontier of space.....

 

[General_Paul]

Axis Victory Timeline: 1941-1950

Alright, since we're getting into some really detailed ideas for this, I figure that I might as well try to put together a semi-detailed TL as an outline for future developments/ideas.

June 22, 1941- The Germans open Operation: Barbarossa, the invasion of Russia, at 0300 hours on June 22. The massive offensive's main objectives are the cities of Leningrad and Moscow by September. If these two cities are captured by then, the Army may then be free to transfer reserve units to other areas of expected fighting, and perhaps swing the armored columns south to hit Stalingrad and the Caucuses before the onset of the Soviet winter.

June-August 1941- The fight for Russia goes as OTL, except for one crucial element, Hitler does not transfer the armored units from the front to the capture of Kiev in the Ukraine, instead electing to transfer reserve Italian units from near the front lines to assist German forces in forcing the surrender of Kiev.

August-September 1941- With the armored columns in place, the German drive for Moscow is not slowed as OTL, but instead was allowed to continue at its original pace and by the start of September, the German armored columns had reached the outskirts of Moscow.

September 3, 1941- Moscow falls to the German Army just as Josef Stalin evacuates Moscow to flee south to Stalingrad, where from Stalingrad in the South, and Leningrad in the North, he can plan the recapture of the Soviet capital and the liberation of his nation.

September 10, 1941- Leningrad falls to the German Army after three weeks of constant bombardment by artillery, and the addition of thousands of Finnish soldiers who joined in the siege of the old capital of the Russian Empire. In the end, 75,000 Germans, and 65,000 Finns lost their lives in the assault of the city on September 7-10, 1941.

September 11, 1941- Stalin recieves news of the fall of Leningrad. Seeing his defeat as all too certain, he sends word to Hitler of an immediate and unconditional surrender of the Soviet Union to Nazi Germany. Hitler does not send a response.

September 12-December 31, 1941- With the coming onset of the Russian winter, German forces settle down into their captured Soviet cities and towns to wait out the bitter cold of the Russian winter months. In Berlin, OKW is drawing up plans for the final drive on Stalingrad, the Caucuses, and the drive on the Astrakhand-Archangal, or A-A Line, the final boundary that Hitler drew for the conquest of the Russian hinterland.

December 7, 1941- The United States is drawn into a war with Japan once the Japanese navy attacks the US Pacific Fleet at anchor in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Once he recieves news of the devastating attack, Hitler is quoted as saying, "Let the Japanese deal with the untermeschen of the United States, we have our own swine to deal with." Because of this, the United States has no justification to enter the European conflict, nor to send Lend Lease shipments to the Soviet Union. The Soviets are now standing completely on their own against the might of the German Army. Stalin now knows, there is no hope for survival, instead he must prepare for the final spring offensive and the ultimate defeat of the Soviet nation.

January 1-April 10, 1942- German forces prepare for the coming of Spring, and the resuming of the final defeat of the Soviet Union. In Stalingrad, Premier Josef Stalin along with most of the ruling cabinet devise a strategy to pull most of the remnants of the Soviet armed forces east of the Ural Mountains in case of a complete collapse of the remnants of Zhukov's Southern Army in the face of the German onslaught. This plan becomes known as the "Novobirisk Evacuation" plan, which will come into effect later on in the year.

April 11, 1942- Case: Blue, the offensive in the South against the Soviets opens up at 0001 hours local time with a massive six hour artillery barrage against Soviet emplacements. Hitler's final objectives in the South, the fall of Stalingrad, and the capture of the Caucuses is within his reach.

More to come in a bit.

 

[General_Paul]

Hope you don't mind, Paul....

1961

1961 saw a world sharply devided in two, with no real room for any sort of nuetrality (although several European states tried their hardest to do just that). The American-led UN/World Commonwealth glared across oceans and continents at the Greater German Reich and its puppet "Brotherhood of National Socialism."

The "Brotherhood" had many problems in 1961. Despite its aura of omnipitance and grandiose power, its members were being bloodied in several major conflicts. South Africa's Apartheid government was facing harsh uprsings and riots being fomented by African National Congress. The notorious massacres against hundreds in innocent civilians at Sharpville, Mbane, Maseru, Gabrone, and Cape Town would all occur this year, but the resistance continued. ANC leaders Nelson Mandela and Steven Biko would continue to elude capture, even as they orchestrated daring attacks against the National Pary regeime in Johannesburg, which culminated in a massive car bomb attack against the South African Parliament on July 3, which killed Prime Minister Hendrik Frensch Verwoerd. In retaliation, the South African army raised the Johnessburg Townships, killing almost 25,000 black South Africans. But the campaign for freedom would continue.

In the Gold Coast, Kwame Nkrumah continued a campaign of massive civil dissobedience against the Appeasment British. Similar campaigns began in Tanganyka (now the Republic of Tanzania), Uganda, Kuwait, and the Trucial States (now the United Arab Emirates).

In Ethiopia, the democratic Lions of Judah and the Marxist United Front were reluctently coordinating their previously seperate campaigns of terror against the Italians. Gamel Abdul Nasser and Anwar Sadat continued a campaign of terror against the occupying Appeasment British and German forces. In Palestine, the few remaining Jews and Arabs continued their raids against the occupying Appeasment British and Germans. The Vichy French faced vicious attacks from Algerian and Morrocan guerillas. And in European Russia, Germany faced harsh partisan attacks, gleefully aided by the rump USSR west of the Urals. The former Yugoslavia remained a black hole that sucked in Axis lives, as Serbain partisans, under the combined commands of both Marshall Tito and General Mikhailovich, waged harsh war against the Italians, Germans, and the Croatian Ushtashe.

The members of the UN and the World Commonwealth were far more sedeate internally, although the Germans did their best to stir up trouble between Muslims and Hindus in the Indian Federation, and to aide the quiet facist movment that still resided in Argentina even after Juan and Evita Peron's destruction at the hands of the Brazilians in the late 1940s.

Soon, however, the Cold War would be moving into the last frontier of space.....

I give you two thumbs up for this outline of 1961! You and I should sit down and develop a TL for this from 1941 onwards.

 

[David bar Elias]

Sounds like a plan.....

 

[David bar Elias]

What section should I deal with?

 

[General_Paul]

probably 1959-1970, I can handle 1941-1958, and we can both work together on 1970-2000.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

I would think a Cold War in this scenario would last much longer. The Reich wouldn't have the same economic problems as the USSR, nor would it break into the various Republics.

It may reform eventually but it would still dominate Europe economically.

 

[David bar Elias]

That sounds good.....

Here are a few ideas for the postwar period:

-Along with Winston Churchill, Anthony Eden, the House of Windsor, Clement Atlee, Noel Coward, Virginia Woolf, et. all flee to Canada, they are joined by the Jews of Britain (and as an insult to Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, they take the Crown Jewels with them, along with the Magna Carta).

-War between Brazil and Argentina

-Massive Kaynsian economic programs for Mexico, Cenral America, South America, and Asia. (J.M. Kaynes makes his home in New York).

-A dramatic escape for Neils Bohr, along with the Jews of Norway and Denmark.

 

[David bar Elias]

But the Germans and their allies have many harsh guerilla conflicts to deal about. Several alone are like the Vietnam War/Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

But the Germans and their allies have many harsh guerilla conflicts to deal about. Several alone are like the Vietnam War/Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Take it for granted that any conquered areas will have major resistance movements for at least 20 years.

The more inhospitable environment/certainty of victory you have, the longer it will take.

 

[David bar Elias]

True enough.

 

[General_Paul]

That sounds good.....

Here are a few ideas for the postwar period:

-Along with Winston Churchill, Anthony Eden, the House of Windsor, Clement Atlee, Noel Coward, Virginia Woolf, et. all flee to Canada, they are joined by the Jews of Britain (and as an insult to Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, they take the Crown Jewels with them, along with the Magna Carta).

-War between Brazil and Argentina

-Massive Kaynsian economic programs for Mexico, Cenral America, South America, and Asia. (J.M. Kaynes makes his home in New York).

-A dramatic escape for Neils Bohr, along with the Jews of Norway and Denmark.

Excellent ideas all of them. I especially like thebit about the Magna Carta and the Crown Jewels being brought to Canada, along with the Jews of Britain, just adds insult to injury!

 

[General_Paul]

Take it for granted that any conquered areas will have major resistance movements for at least 20 years.

The more inhospitable environment/certainty of victory you have, the longer it will take.

Oh yeah, resistence will go well into the 1960's, if not further. By the 1980's, I can see the resistence going much more underground, but still maintaining its effectiveness. By the 1990's, resistence movements are targeting not just physical locations, but computer systems as well (computer terrorism anyone?)

The Cold War will probably come to an end by the mid to late 21st Century, but the damage will have been done.

 

[David bar Elias]

If you really want to peeve Edward, you could also take the stone that the King/Queen is crowned on (I forget its name), along with say, the Rosetta Stone and the Elgin Marbles from the British Museum....among other things....