US-Nazi cold war

JoeMulk

Banned
What would the politics be like of a US fighting a cold war against nazi germany? Come up with whatever POD you want. But would the US be significantly to the left and possibly have a Joe McCarthy type holding hearings against a fascist influence?
 
Considering HUAC was grilling possible fascists in the 30's under the direction of Congressman Dickstein, who turned out to be a Soviet spy, he could be the McCarthy figure of such a timeline.

The American political scene might see the Anglophilic Yale-alumni Republicans and the Democratic Party split between the detente wing (who can count two separate Joe Kennedy presidencies as their victories) and those who favor Russia over Britain as Ally #1.
 
It ultimately ends with an atomic war and the USA becomes the less-affected loser of World War III. The Nazis aren't the USSR, their Blood for the Blood God mentality will lead them to escalate in the first Cuban Missile Crisis equivalent of any such Cold War.
 
Actually, no reason McCarthy couldn't be the McCarthy of a Kalterkrieg timeline, assuming he was as unprincipled and opportunistic as people say. He just changes targets.

What would be interesting is what the Black Scare targets. In OTL, there really were Hollywood writers and directors who were under Party discipline (ie, taking orders from Moscow) even into the 50s. I don't believe there was any great Nazi penetration of Hollywood at any time. OTOH, expect the Ku Klux Klan to be targetted as sympathizers.

The resistance to the Black Scare will be different than what it was to OTL Red Scare. In OTL, J. Edgar Hoover was able to convince some of the ACLU for a while that Communists didn't deserve their protection. It'd be even easier for the ACLU to rationalize not protecting Nazis--because, you know, Nazis. On the other hand, overzealous persecution of the Klan could mean whole Southern state governments begin opposing HUAC.

Now--what would the 60s counterculture be like? Young people would probably still react against Cold War conformity and paranoia--but Cold War conformity to different ideals, and paranoia about different enemies.
 
It ultimately ends with an atomic war and the USA becomes the less-affected loser of World War III. The Nazis aren't the USSR, their Blood for the Blood God mentality will lead them to escalate in the first Cuban Missile Crisis equivalent of any such Cold War.

Maybe, but not inevitably.

Nazis aren't Chaos Demons, and aren't possessed by Khorne; they're just human beings with a bad ideology. For starters, it does matter to them if their own blood gets spilled.
 
Who exactly is leading this Cold War for Nazi Germany? If its Hitler or Himmler the chances of it going hot are a fair bit higher then a Goering, Speer, Goebbels or a military junta.
 

JoeMulk

Banned
Now--what would the 60s counterculture be like? Young people would probably still react against Cold War conformity and paranoia--but Cold War conformity to different ideals, and paranoia about different enemies.

Depends, I wonder if this timeline would have a Vietnam analogy, possibly in South America maybe with Che Guevara as a US ally for an ironic twist against a right-wing nazi puppet. Maybe if that happens and there's still a draft you'd get a younger generation that becomes conservative isolationists as a rebellion.
 
Maybe, but not inevitably.

Nazis aren't Chaos Demons, and aren't possessed by Khorne; they're just human beings with a bad ideology. For starters, it does matter to them if their own blood gets spilled.

It didn't in the actual war until after Hitler shot himself. Give Hitler the chance to Nazify Europe and it really won't to any of the people running the Volksgemeinschaft, who would merrily blow themselves to radioactive ruin if it would take a society of "Racial Mongrels" with them.
 
Depends, I wonder if this timeline would have a Vietnam analogy, possibly in South America maybe with Che Guevara as a US ally for an ironic twist against a right-wing nazi puppet. Maybe if that happens and there's still a draft you'd get a younger generation that becomes conservative isolationists as a rebellion.

Actually I envisioned that China and South East Asia would still be a flashpoint, with the Japanese bogged down fighting an endless war and Germany reluctantly dragged into helping their ally. And of course there's the endless fighting in Russia against the partisans there.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
A West/Reich Cold War would be considerably less stable than the NATO/Pact version. Even if you find a way to get the USSR brought to heel (which, BTW takes some doing :D) the Reich is still run by a bunch of flat out lunatics all of whom actually BELIEVE the whole National Socialist line.

For it to have a shred of stability you have to take the UK completely off the table, something that is a practical impossibility, and even that only buys a decade or so, mainly because the two sides can't get at each other in any practical manner. Once the capacity is there, something the U.S. does will step on Hitler's (or his replacement's) shadow and the shit will hit the fan.
 
Wouldn't Nazi Germany have to beat the Soviet Union to have a Cold War with the US? A Nazi empire stretching from the English Channel to the Urals would have far greater production capacity than the OTL Soviet Union. Wouldn't this lead to an even more militarized US?
 
Wouldn't Nazi Germany have to beat the Soviet Union to have a Cold War with the US? A Nazi empire stretching from the English Channel to the Urals would have far greater production capacity than the OTL Soviet Union. Wouldn't this lead to an even more militarized US?

Ah, no. A Nazi Empire on the OTL model would be an economic clusterfuck which is as strong as its propaganda office is good, no more and no less.
 
i think we would still see some things similar to OTL cold war.
But as long as hitler dies in the 50s and Himmler doesn't take power,
we could see a dehitlerization, and maybe even a cultural revolution.

And if the Nazis can turn there conquered territories into a German Empire sort of like the second reich, but with Germany leading its puppet states (who would eventually have a majority German population) then they could become far more powerful than the USSR ever was.

But if Himmler is elected, we would all be calling rascist by his name instead of Hitler's because as much as hitler was sick;
Henrich Himmler was a twisted sadistic fucker (pardon my language.)

And he would use the bomb the first chance he got; no doubt about that.
 
Th nazis would be playing with one hand tied behind their back. The bread and meat of the cold war was inciting rebellions in the third world in favour of your ideology, and why would anyone support a revolution that's racist against them. Admittedly that would lead to an interresting situation, where Africa was the USs most steadfast ally and Latin America contested.

The good news is, racism in America would die out even faster, with the government backing the forces that brought it in OTL.
 
Wouldn't Nazi Germany have to beat the Soviet Union to have a Cold War with the US? A Nazi empire stretching from the English Channel to the Urals would have far greater production capacity than the OTL Soviet Union. Wouldn't this lead to an even more militarized US?

It would under a sane regime. Under the Nazis, not so much...

This scenario is explored in the movie Fatherland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaFxd8K8PpM

It was a book.
 
I don't see why the KKK would get targeted. Weren't they always very anti-Nazi, despite being huge bigots?

Though of course, I could see a major attitude shift towards racism, depending on whether or not the various atrocities of the Nazis come out -- the Holocaust, and especially Generalplan Ost (since it seems more likely to leak, to me).

The Nazis aren't the USSR, their Blood for the Blood God mentality will lead them to escalate in the first Cuban Missile Crisis equivalent of any such Cold War.

SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE

...sorry.
 
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