US Military Great Depression
- Thread starter Hashasheen
- Start date
The active duty Army was only about 100,000 men, and most of them were pretty low quality troops. The Marines had around 25,000, and they were much better trained and more professional than the Army.
The biggest was the Navy. I don't have any idea of the total size in terms of personell, but it was at least on par, if not a bit larger than the British Royal Navy.
Depends on the time. In 1936 (the middle of the Great Depression), the US Army had five 'active' infantry divisions. Three of these were in CONUS (and seriously understrength), one in Panama (more of a brigade), and one in the Phillippines. There were also scattered Cavalry and (very) light armored/motorised units - all of these togther amounted to maybe a brigade. Their doctrine was rooted in the Great War, and they were in no way combat-ready.
The Army Air Corps was tiny; although it was ordering the earliest model B-17s by then, IIRC.
The USMC could have scrapped together a real division. By the far the best in the US.
The USN was comparitively huge. Around 15 BBs, 12 CA, 15 CL and 60 or so DD. 2 CVs (Lexington, Saratoga), 1 'CVL' (Langley), and CV Ranger coming in at the end of the year. Lots of Subs, and logisitical support ships. Very little amphib capability (though plenty of sealift). These ships were in varying states of readiness; apart from the RN or IJN, no one is challenging it even in 1936; and even then it would have pasted the IJN in a battleship fight.
By 1939 things were different. The US Army was about the same, but the CONUS divisions were at full strength. The Air Corps was bigger, and the USN had added 3 or 4 CVs.
Why do you ask?
Mike Turcotte
Hashasheen
Banned
Wondering at the jump from Great-Depression military to WW2-ending military. Plus trying to make a comparison to Confederate straights of the same time period.
Bearcat
Banned
I've heard that, before the draft was instated in 1940, the US Army was comparable to Portugal's. Not insignificant, but pretty small for a large country.
The Navy, while not the huge one of later years, was more substantial, though it was very short on smaller ships like destroyers.
The Navy, while not the huge one of later years, was more substantial, though it was very short on smaller ships like destroyers.
Bearcat
Banned
Everything started to change in 1940, mostly after the fall of France. The army got the draft, the navy got the Two-Ocean Navy Act. And aircraft production began to increase.
Ranger was commissioned in 1934, Langley was converted into a seaplane tender from October 1936-Feb. 1937, there were only 10 light cruisers in service in 1936 (the Omaha's; the Brooklyns didn't start entering service until 1937) and your destroyer totals are a tad off- the 60 ships or so might have been units in active commission although I think there were more but don't have time to do that much research, but there were well over a hundred more in reserve, and only a dozen or so of the 1936 units were modern ships (at this time, the Farraguts, some of the Porters, and the first couple Mahans), and the rest were obsolescent WW1 four-pipers. From the end of WW1 until the mid-1970s, the USN had the largest destroyer force in the world when active & reserve units were combined due to the massive wartime building programs. The submarine force was about 50 or so obsolete WW1-vintage O, R, & S boats, the 3 unsuccessful Barracudas, several experimental boats- the minelayer Argonaut, the cruisers Narwhal & Nautilus, 3 not entirely successful fleet-boat prototypes (Dolphin, Cuttlefish, Cachalot) and the first couple modern fleet subs of the P classes
Rule of thumb? USN-Pac has a heavier battle line, fewer carriers and no unified Kido-Butai-like force, inferior pilot training, inferior night combat training, superior numbers and gun power in most lighter types but distinctly inferior torpedoes. Things fluctuated throughout the 30's but take that as a starting point. If you add in the Atlantic Fleet (and bear in mind units regularly shifted between fleets), the US adds something like 50% overall to its numbers (that's quite a rough number, BTW).
This is a list of wartime ships, but note the earliest types in almost all classes were pre-war builds:
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/USN-ships.html
Combined Fleet is a labor of love about the IJN; again wartime, but most of the IJN was build before the war:
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm
For most of the Depression, the USN was not divided between Atlantic and Pacific the way it was in 1941, but rather between Battle Fleet and Scouting Fleet. The terms were misnomers, as Battle Fleet was the Navy's Pacific component and Scouting Fleet was its Atlantic component, but it does describe the force distribution. Battle Fleet included the main battleline of 12 Standard Type battleships, all the carriers in service, and most of its modern cruisers, with Scouting Fleet getting the leftovers. This meant equality in carriers and cruisers, and superiority in battleships compared with Japan for most of the Depression. In 1939, for instance, it had 4 fleet carriers and 1 light fleet carrier, compared to Japan with 2 fleet carriers, 2 light fleet carriers, and 1 light carrier, with the Hosho in reserve and judged incapable of combat.
The Japanese gained naval superiority with the U.S. reorganization into Atlantic and Pacific Fleets along with the transfer of Yorktown and Ranger and one division of 3 battleships with escorts to the Atlantic. This superiority increased when the 2 Shokakus entered service in 1941 while the newly completed Wasp was assigned to the Atlantic and Hornet was still fitting out, allowing Japan to form the mighty Kidou Butai that swept the Pacific.
Scouting Fleet still had 3 battleships, and Battle and Scouting Fleets regularly combined for fleet exercises which often took place in the Caribbean and Atlantic. Nonetheless Lex and Sara were permanently assigned to the Pacific for the entirety of their careers.