US government Collapses during War of 1812

Why would the government collapse if Madison is killed?

I mean, even if there's confusion who takes over as president, that's not the same thing as removing the entire national government.


Not to mention why the British would drag Jefferson out of retirement to try him for anything.
 
Britain isn`t going to be taking revenge on revolutionaries. Why would it? What would be the point in killing a few old men who the people in Britain don`t much care about but the loss of which would piss off the very country the Brits are trying to get to chill out?
 
Why would the government collapse if Madison is killed?

I mean, even if there's confusion who takes over as president, that's not the same thing as removing the entire national government.

After all, the US fought the entire ARW without a President.
 
What happened to the Vice President? Where precisely was Gerry as of August 1814?

If Madison is captured, it clearly counts as disability. Since he is alive, and might within the rest of his term (till March 1817) return through rescue, escape, prisoner exchange, general release of prisoners etc., it is clear that "the same" which devolves on Vice President is the functions, not the position of President.

Whad happened OTL to the rest of US prisoners of war in 1812-1814? Were they exchanged during war or held till general release of prisoners after peace?
 
The US barely had enough of a government to have it collapse.

True enough. Another point is that given the distance and means of communication at the time there was no instant and constant communication between Washington and other places. One had to wait days or weeks for communications and things were not as centralized as they are now. I would consider that up until 1860 the US Government could be forced into flight without any major disruption in governance.
 

Thande

Donor
I suspect Madison would be taken back to London and held under house arrest in a nice place, that was the general procedure when enemy monarchs were captured which is the closest analogue.

Be funny if he met George III, who of course was rather bonkers by then.
 
I suspect Madison would be taken back to London and held under house arrest in a nice place, that was the general procedure when enemy monarchs were captured which is the closest analogue.
Quite likely. Which means that the British commander on the spot may have made up the decision to attack Washington in the first place but is not going to make the decision to release Madison.

Any release or prisoner exchange will wait until Madison is first carried by ship to London and then the US government is contacted for issues of prisoner exchange, right? UK may appoint commissioners with wide discretion as to the terms of release, to avoid negotiation back and forth, but actual release of Madison will not happen until 1) he has sailed to England 2) instructions for release terms have been decided in England 3) the instructions have sailed to America 4) whoever the temporary government was has agreed on them 5) the agreement has sailed to England and 6) Madison has sailed to America for release.

4 trips across Atlantic, 2 considerations in place.

Where exactly was Gerry in August 1814?

OTL, he was back in the ruins of Washington with Congress in session by 17th of September, 1814.
 
Here's a thought. In the Treaty of Paris, I believe Britain granted independence to each colony as an independent state. Is there any chance it might treat them as such if the US central government collapses? Particularly if can force a wedge between New England and the rest?
 
Why drag out Jefferson? As a symbol. He wrote the Declaration. He was the third PotUS. He was well known.

I'd like to point something out:

Madison was the 4th US President. The Constitution as a system was still new, relativly.

When William Henry Harrison, the 9th president died in 1841, so nearly three decades later, Tyler assumed the presidency. This was contraversial at the time. Its become convention after 8 deaths and a resignation that the VP becomes President, but the Constitution isn't exactly clear on the point. Members of the Harrison cabinet thought there's be a power sharing kind of thing. It was Tyler putting his foot down that established precident.

I can imagine a situation where Madison is killed, and infighting among cabinet members allows the govt to collapse.
 
Why drag out Jefferson? As a symbol. He wrote the Declaration. He was the third PotUS. He was well known.

But why execute him in the first place? There was no legal basis to it. The Treaty of Paris 1783 had legitimised the American government and meant that all accusations of treason by the British government on colonists were immediately, permanently and retrospectively nullified. You can't just ignore treaties like that. Doing so destroys the very fabric of the legal basis of the states of the time.

On top of this, how would that possibly benefit Britain? During the ARW the majority of Britons actually held sympathy for the colonists, probably more for ideological reasons than because they viewed rebellion as legitimate. Doing this would not only anger America, it would cause riots in Britain. On top of that, how would it help in future? England CANNOT reconquer America. Not even small parts. It simply doesn't have the resources to occupy a vast swathe of land with a sparse and small population which is well-capable and practiced at dispersing into the countryside where necessary. Not only that, but Parliament had no interest in major land gains against the USA. It's major concern in the War of 1812 was preserving its military ascendancy, protecting Canada from attack, and giving the Americans the kind of bloody nose that says "don't try that again" without saying "I will break every bone in your body" because the second response is the kind of response that starts more wars, and more wars is what Britain really doesn't want to have to pay for. Any tactic that makes the Americans fear the British is good. Any that makes them hate and despise is bad. Burning Washington was revenge for burning York, it probably wouldn't have happened otherwise. Executing the US President for treason that was abrogated a full 32 years ago? No. Just...just no.
 
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