US government Collapses during War of 1812

The attack on Washington D.C. and the subsequent burning of most of the government buildings was devastating to the young republic. We were lucky for our central government to survive such an attack. My question is, what may have happened if the burning of D.C. resulted in a collapse of the U.S. government. Let's say that President Madison is killed or captured, and the rest of the government has scattered and there is no one to take charge. What happens? Is a new government formed? Do states start acting of their own accord and make seperate peace with the British? Do the British win?
 
I think the US would be better prepared in this case because there would still be Revolutionary War veterans. Is Elbridge Gerry dead? He'll die in a few months anyways.

The United States will fight no holds barred now that Madison is gone. New England unites firmly behind the war.
 
Madison was indeed very nearly captured, which would have precipitated a constitutional crisis. Clearly in such a case the president would be incapacitated in all practical terms. I'd suppose that the Secretary of State (at the time, James Monroe) would make the declaration of inability and DeWitt Clinton would assume the duties of the presidency, at least for the time being.

Now, assuming that there are no butterflies with respect to individual longevities, there will be another crisis toward the end of November 1814: Clinton died OTL on 23 November 1814, which would leave the acting presidency in the hands of the president pro tempore of the Senate--except there wasn't one when Clinton died, which makes things stickier still. Joseph Varnum of Massachusetts left that office on 3 February 1814 and his successor, John Gaillard of South Carolina, wouldn't take office until 25 November 1814 in OTL. That would have left the presidency-nominally, at least-in the hands of Langdon Cheves of South Carolina.

I suspect that in this situation, Monroe would have been the de facto president. He would have probably issued instructions to the peace negotiators in Ghent, likely to seek the most generous terms available. Chances are that the confusion in Washington could have led to the revival of the Hartford Convention and the secession of the New England states also.

What happens then is really up for grabs. A migration of US-loyal New Englanders to New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware doesn't seem unlikely (imagine, if you will, Adams pére et fils finding a new home in, say, Chester County, PA (Delaware County didn't split off until quite some years later) near Philadelphia, or Daniel Webster as a representative, then senator from Delaware). By the same token, the War Hawks would probably be thoroughly discredited, and the opposition--what was left of the Federalists plus dissident Democrats--would hold the US government for some time to come.

I'd suspect Canada gets unified sooner to ensure what would amount to a renascent British grip on North America. B
 

Thande

Donor
While it would certainly be a blow to the US, one should not act as though it would be like this happening to-day. Partly because the US was a much looser federation back then with the state governments having more power, and partly because communications meant armies were used to not having orders from central government for weeks anyway.
 
While it would certainly be a blow to the US, one should not act as though it would be like this happening to-day. Partly because the US was a much looser federation back then with the state governments having more power, and partly because communications meant armies were used to not having orders from central government for weeks anyway.

I'm also not sure that New England would secede. I mean, one of the reasons Hartford went nowhere in OTL was that the delegates thought it'd be treasonous to secede during a war. Doing so after they stole our president?
 
The US barely had enough of a government to have it collapse.

I kind of agree with this (it made me laugh too). The capture of the president doesn't mean the country will fall apart, as the U.S wasn't as centralized as it will be post-Civil War. I can see the military taking over while the remaining politicians sort it out.
 
I'm also not sure that New England would secede. I mean, one of the reasons Hartford went nowhere in OTL was that the delegates thought it'd be treasonous to secede during a war. Doing so after they stole our president?

AFAIK New England wanted no part of the War or 1812. If the USA appears to be losing, but won't concede as a matter of honour because the President has been abducted, where does that leave them? Could New England declare neutrality without seceding?
 
AFAIK New England wanted no part of the War or 1812. If the USA appears to be losing, but won't concede as a matter of honour because the President has been abducted, where does that leave them? Could New England declare neutrality without seceding?

No. The entire idea of declaring neutrality would only work from the position of "we can do that as opposed to going with the rest of the country".
 
AFAIK New England wanted no part of the War or 1812. If the USA appears to be losing, but won't concede as a matter of honour because the President has been abducted, where does that leave them? Could New England declare neutrality without seceding?
Ahem, the Federalists wanted nothing to due with the War, their (declining) power base just happened to be in New England. Also, America is not the HRE, I don't think states could get away with neutrality.
 
Madison was indeed very nearly captured, which would have precipitated a constitutional crisis. Clearly in such a case the president would be incapacitated in all practical terms. I'd suppose that the Secretary of State (at the time, James Monroe) would make the declaration of inability and DeWitt Clinton would assume the duties of the presidency, at least for the time being.

IIRC the "declaration of incapacity" by the vice president and majority of cabinet ministers wasn't a constitutional device until the 25th Amendment.
 
The Brits would probably release Madison. Having him captive would just make it impossible to end the war through negotiation and would be an embarassment for both sides.
 
The Brits would probably release Madison. Having him captive would just make it impossible to end the war through negotiation and would be an embarassment for both sides.

How so? Because the American government would be disarray or because holding they just happen to hold the enemy leader? If you mean the latter I'll kindly disagree.
 
Why not ship him back to London to face a trial for treason?

It'd take a different end to the Revolution though.

Instead of accepting it could the end of the American Revolution be a 'You may have won this time, but you're still British colonies in rebellion and we'll be back!'
 
Why not ship him back to London to face a trial for treason?
Why would the British want to abrogate the Treaty of Paris which recognized US independence? By then, they'd realized it'd be prohibitively expensive and difficult to reconquer the US. For one point, almost all the Loyalists had left for Canada.
 
(imagine, if you will, Adams pére et fils finding a new home in, say, Chester County, PA (Delaware County didn't split off until quite some years later) near Philadelphia,

One slight issue here: I live in Delaware County, and this struck me odd, so I looked it up. Delaware County was split off from Chester County on September 26, 1789. The some years later you may be thinking of is that Chester City was county seat (as it had been for the combined Chester County) until 1851, when the seat moved to Media, but Chester was part of Delaware County from 1789 onward, at which point Chester County moved their county seat to West Chester.

Other than that minor point of hometown nerdity, the scenario you posted was quite cool.
 

Kissinger

Banned
One reason the British gave in was the advice of men like Wellington who realized America could be a vital partner for the future. WHy risk losing that partner, give Madison back. THough this could cause problems with those men,
 
Madison is killed. The entire govt collapses. This leads to govt devolving down to individual states, sometimes in groups.
So New England becomes a united block combined with NY.
SC, NC and GA form a block.
PA & NJ form a block, dominated by PA. And VA, MD and DE stand on their own.
TN, KY and OH remain unaligned, although form an informal Western Alliance.

New England is the first to hold a convention, declare neutrality, and send their own peace delegation.

The US Army and Navy dissolve and various states have their own militias.

The British reinvade VA, MD and DE as Monroe vows to fight on. The PA-NJ block holds their border, which is fine since the British are focused further south.

After the New England block successfully establishes a armistice with the British, the Southern Block send their delegation to London.

The British focus on occupying VA, MD and DE and capturing the former govt officials who fled into the countryside and taking revenge on former revolutionaries. Thomas Jefferson is dragged out of retirement and sent to London to face trial.

Finally the PA-NJ block make peace with the British.

A four party peace conference is called at Plattsburgh, NY. The British are given the occupied former colonies of VA, DE and MD and the formal peace treaty, the Treaty of Plattsburgh, is signed. Hostilities in North America.

A second six party conference is then called in Cincinatti including the three blocks as well as TN, KY and OH. The Congress of Cincinatti divides up the Louisana Territory.
 
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