US earlier to join WW1

Germany agree to begin unrestricted submarine warfare in the previous year, at the beginning of 1916. Is the United States also previously accede then to the war?
 
The war probally ends slightly earlier then it did in our time line, america's biggest contrabution was more resources, material, and people then a qualatative edge. Really it was just going to take time to get germany to crack and that process could only be sped up so much. That said Wilson gets a bigger seat at the table and probally screws things up worse then he did in OTL.
 
The US gets a taste of the meatgrinder.

US American casualties would multiply in such a scenario. Even if they win, the impact left of the US' collectivre psyche will be gigantic.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The US gets a taste of the meatgrinder.

US American casualties would multiply in such a scenario. Even if they win, the impact left of the US' collectivre psyche will be gigantic.
Agreed; after all, weren't tanks (which helped end the stalemate on the Western Front) only put into widespread use in 1918? If so, a lot of U.S. troops might experience the full, hardcore realities of trench warfare in this TL. :(
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Well for starters Russia wouldn't fall to communism.
Agreed; however, ironically, from an extremely Machiavellian perspective, one can argue that the Communists did the West a favor. After all, without Communist rule, Russia would be more populous, territorially larger, and wealthier right now (in 2016) than it actually is right now in our TL.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
The war probally ends slightly earlier then it did in our time line, america's biggest contrabution was more resources, material, and people then a qualatative edge. Really it was just going to take time to get germany to crack and that process could only be sped up so much. That said Wilson gets a bigger seat at the table and probally screws things up worse then he did in OTL.
How exactly did Wilson screw up the Versailles peace, though?
 

Deleted member 1487

Germany agree to begin unrestricted submarine warfare in the previous year, at the beginning of 1916. Is the United States also previously accede then to the war?
I don't see how Germany would agree to that because the only ones that supported such an action were the H-L clique that were not allowed near power until Falkenhayn's strategy discredited the traditional power structure and brought Hindenburg to power. Even then H-L couldn't make it happen before 1917 and a 'peace offensive' to justify their action with the US by first working with Wilson to negotiate and end to the war; they knew the Entente would never even negotiate so they approached Wilson to attempt to get a negotiation going and when the Entente refused to participate and Willson was furious with the Entente then the H-L regime though they had cover to launch USW again and have the US stay out. So they were very careful about trying to diplomatically maneuver into a position to have a reason to restart it and wouldn't have done so in 1916 given the personalities in power at that time.
 

Deleted member 94680

How exactly did Wilson screw up the Versailles peace, though?

Seriously? By insisting on Self Determination and then not implementing it universally when it suited the Allies. The 14 points resulted in the Polish Corridor (which ignored self determination in West Prussia) and left a festering sore that gave the Nazis a cause célèbre to unify the nation against the West. By removing the Kaiser for reasons then attempting to crush Germany anyway made the Weimar Republic a lame duck from minute one. Then, after setting fire to the whole house, jumping on a ship to bugger off home before the Ottomans had even been dealt with summed it all up really.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Seriously? By insisting on Self Determination and then not implementing it universally when it suited the Allies.

The inconsistencies in this could have been fixed diplomatically over time, though. Heck, Britain and France allowed Hitler to annex both Austria and the Sudetenland in the late 1930s!

The 14 points resulted in the Polish Corridor (which ignored self determination in West Prussia)

Actually, the Polish Corridor (excluding Danzig) had a Polish-majority population.

and left a festering sore that gave the Nazis a cause célèbre to unify the nation against the West.

Actually, Hitler appears to have been more concerned with the German areas in former Austria-Hungary as well as with the Soviet Union than with Poland; heck, didn't Hitler even offer an anti-Soviet alliance to Poland?

By removing the Kaiser for reasons

Actually, the German people themselves did that.

then attempting to crush Germany anyway made the Weimar Republic a lame duck from minute one. Then, after setting fire to the whole house, jumping on a ship to bugger off home before the Ottomans had even been dealt with summed it all up really.

Actually, with the exception of the reparations (which would have been renegotiated later), Germany got a pretty generous peace after the end of World War I. Indeed, technically speaking, Germany wasn't even forced to surrender to the Allies at the end of World War I!
 
Mexico/Pancho Vila did the US a huge favour by causing the mobilisation of the National Guard on the border in July 1916, which gave months of hard training and operational experience of handling a real live army of 12 divisions without the meat grinder of real war. During this time the NG formed regiments into divisions, batteries into battalions and regiments and sorted a myriad of problems out, so when April 1917 rolled around the US was vastly more ready for WW1 than it was a mere 8 months previously.

Without this practice run the US is going to struggle in WW1, sorting out their logistics, admin, training and all that other boring but crucial rear-end crap while holding the line against the most formidable army in the world.
 

Deleted member 94680

The inconsistencies in this could have been fixed diplomatically over time, though. Heck, Britain and France allowed Hitler to annex both Austria and the Sudetenland in the late 1930s!

So it was so good it could be fixed over time? Sounds more like it wasn't very good to start with.

Actually, the Polish Corridor (excluding Danzig) had a Polish-majority population.

But the coast had a German majority and (as you've said yourself) so did Danzig. So where was their self determination?

Actually, Hitler appears to have been more concerned with the German areas in former Austria-Hungary as well as with the Soviet Union than with Poland; heck, didn't Hitler even offer an anti-Soviet alliance to Poland?

He did offer it to Poland yes, but it was essentially requiring Poland to submit itself to German control. Also, the War started with a German declaration on Poland. By "the German areas in former Austria-Hungary" you mean the Sudetenland I take it? He wanted that, sure, but only as it was a German majority area and the Wilsonian principle of self determination should have seen it go to Germany or Austria.

Actually, the German people themselves did that.

Only because the American declarations in the lead up to Versailles led them to believe that they would receive a "fairer" deal without the Kaiser. The Treaty disabused then of that idea. That, in turn, led many Germans to view Weimar as the "puppet" of the Allies and even the Treaty as the "real constitution of Weimar".

Actually, with the exception of the reparations (which would have been renegotiated later), Germany got a pretty generous peace after the end of World War I. Indeed, technically speaking, Germany wasn't even forced to surrender to the Allies at the end of World War I!

True, but it's a technicality as signing a Treaty to cease a state of War where you admit causing the War and allow a raft of punishments to be inflicted on you amounts to the same thing. No one in Germany considered it "generous" that's for sure and to undo it all over the following years (ceasing reparations, territorial adjustments, allowing rearmament) just reinforced the image in Germany it was wrong in the first place.

Actually, Wilson turned up with a high-minded idea to solve War in Europe (and therefore the World), didn't see it through, interfered in traditional diplomatic norms when the other Great Powers tried to make the best of it and failed to get America involved post-War when she was needed the most. He unleashed the idea of the nation state whilst being too short sighted to realise its implications for the ethnically heterogeneous nature of European Empires and washed his hands of the whole lot the second it became complicated.
 
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