Four Term Lincoln. Four terms!
With Grant and Sherman VPs
A little radicalism never hurt anybody. The Confederates don't count
With Grant and Sherman VPs
A little radicalism never hurt anybody. The Confederates don't count
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Grant now being in charge its like the John Paul Jones saying that famous quote of his. And sort of like a demigod arriving on to the battlefield and everyone can't help but notice the aura around him.
The rebel cause really going to die kicking and screaming now.
The rebel cause really going to die kicking and screaming now.
Politics is nasty business, and it's a little spooky how fraught with it the appointment of generals is in this war. But in the end, Lincoln was able to get the military fired up the same way he just fired up the political establishment. This summer will be very bloody, but it will hand the rebels a mortal blow.
The failure of the battle of Mobile is unfortunate- but it sounds like we're going to get a land campaign across the southern coast instead. Now THAT is something unique, time for Alabama and Mississippi to get introduced to Sherman's matches?
Would've been cool to see Doubleday, the hero of union mills and the colored troops, in charge. But I guess you can't win em all.
The failure of the battle of Mobile is unfortunate- but it sounds like we're going to get a land campaign across the southern coast instead. Now THAT is something unique, time for Alabama and Mississippi to get introduced to Sherman's matches?
Well, this is a little worrying. Part of what cause the Union to fail to crush the CSA in 1864?
Would've been cool to see Doubleday, the hero of union mills and the colored troops, in charge. But I guess you can't win em all.
Oh boy can’t wait for Sherman to do his leisure walk through the South accompanied by the taste of Rebel tears
Rebel tears! The #1 recommended drink of the Union Soldier! Act now and get a free fried Atlanta Burger and Sherman Fries with purchase!
Or in this TL, Montgomery-Mobile burgers. I think Thomas will do fine chipping away at Atlanta.
My apologies, I believe I was lost in Texas.
I am currently reading everything that I've missed since the spring.
I once accidently hit ingore thread and missed on 6 months of updates. I was so mad at my self.My apologies, I believe I was lost in Texas.
I am currently reading everything that I've missed since the spring.
The irony of my tragedy is that anytime I come to the website I look for alerts, and I am watching the thread.
I just thought Red was busy with life all this time.
With the Union summer offensive on the way, I noted several things:
1. The Union army in Virginia is actually behind OTL schedule. By July, Richmond-Petersburg was already besieged IOTL while ITTL Hancock is in Fredericksburg and Lee in North Anna. Thomas' army, though set back by Marietta, is not that far behind Sherman's schedule, probably being at most 1-2 weeks behind.
2. Mobile is considerably accelerated. Mobile Bay took place 3 months earlier while the land expedition against Mobile, though a failure, happened an entire year earlier than OTL.
On Alabama itself, it was largely ignored for most of the war and was only ravaged by Wilson's Raid in 1865. Supposedly, Alabama was supposed to be the Davis' last ditch, but there weren't enough Confederate forces to even man the envisioned line. Alabama actually had considerable industry at Selma, propaganda value in Montgomery (first Confederate capital), the Black Prairie breadbasket that fed rebel armies and offered the rebels an invasion route to Middle Tennessee. Conversely, Alabama offered another way to get at Atlanta. IOTL Grant had hoped that a strike on Mobile could be made such that not only could a major blockade runner port be shut down, but also a march from Mobile to Atlanta could be possible, putting the Army of Tennessee at risk of a pincer. That said, Mobile was one of the most fortified cities of the war so perhaps Grant's OTL schedule for the Mobile operation was optimistic despite the small garrison during the war.
1. The Union army in Virginia is actually behind OTL schedule. By July, Richmond-Petersburg was already besieged IOTL while ITTL Hancock is in Fredericksburg and Lee in North Anna. Thomas' army, though set back by Marietta, is not that far behind Sherman's schedule, probably being at most 1-2 weeks behind.
2. Mobile is considerably accelerated. Mobile Bay took place 3 months earlier while the land expedition against Mobile, though a failure, happened an entire year earlier than OTL.
On Alabama itself, it was largely ignored for most of the war and was only ravaged by Wilson's Raid in 1865. Supposedly, Alabama was supposed to be the Davis' last ditch, but there weren't enough Confederate forces to even man the envisioned line. Alabama actually had considerable industry at Selma, propaganda value in Montgomery (first Confederate capital), the Black Prairie breadbasket that fed rebel armies and offered the rebels an invasion route to Middle Tennessee. Conversely, Alabama offered another way to get at Atlanta. IOTL Grant had hoped that a strike on Mobile could be made such that not only could a major blockade runner port be shut down, but also a march from Mobile to Atlanta could be possible, putting the Army of Tennessee at risk of a pincer. That said, Mobile was one of the most fortified cities of the war so perhaps Grant's OTL schedule for the Mobile operation was optimistic despite the small garrison during the war.
As usual special thanks to @Arnold d.c for helping me refine these military campaigns. And, I actually left the 4 year anniversary of the TL come and go. It's crazy that this TL has now lasted as long as the Civil War itself. I'll continue, don't worry. Thanks to everyone who has supported it and enjoyed my writing during this time.
A great quip about Banks lol.
I'm a poor mapmaker. I'll see if I have something...
Lincoln will probably retain a lot of sway and influence over the Republican Party. Akin to Jackson.
And yes, it's time for Marching through Alabama! It doesn't have the same ring, but maybe they will come a Georgia version later
Can't wait either!
Oh, the South will regret ever starting this war.
The last thing they'll have is their pride, but that, too, will be ground to dust.
That's certainly a possibility still in the cards!
Good work today! Johnston's removal is bound to be mirred in controversy ITTL as well. But at the end of the day Breckinridge needs a general that will fight. Johnston, who may end up fighting the decisive battle for Atlanta at Key West, is of no more to Breck than McClellan was to Lincoln.
They will, for sure!
After the defeat at Marietta, Lincoln decided that maybe having two competing commanders wasn't his most brillant choice. Because Thomas enjoyed the support of the troops and the commanders, he was restored to full control while Schofield was exiled. To where I haven't decided yet, but he's out of the picture.
Bring the good old buggle!
Damn, I'll correct that! Thanks.A little, OTL slip-up right here
That's my worry too. A Lincoln third term would be great but would it be in character?What fun! Grant is finally there and it sounds like Hancock will realize he needs grants help eventually. I think Grant can figure out how to handle him so he doesn't make him feel feel bad for requesting the help.
Even leaving aside the possible Marfam Syndrome, Lincoln was under a lot of pressure. I don't know if he would want a 3rd term health wise. However, maybe Lincoln with Grant as vice president would work. After all, If Lincoln has some times when he is ill then Grant can step in with Lincoln advising him on how to handle different things.
So in this time line Sherman will be known for marching through Alabama. At Least the tune to Marching Ahrough Georgia only needs one extra up down beat (Or whatever it's called) on each line where that is sung.
Grant to Sherman: " You may think I am imitating President Lincoln with this quip, but when putting together your battle plans, pretend Banks is not there."
A great quip about Banks lol.
I'm kind of fond of using kinds of snakes for Union plans. Aside from the Anaconda Plan, in my other (sadly long neglected) TL an American Plan is nicknamed the Python Plan. Maybe this could be the Cottonmouth Plan? For fast devastating strike.And THAT is how you come back after a long absence! Well done!
Hancock will no longer be Hancock the Superb. He will become Hancock the Glorious... assuming he can reach a consensus with Ulysses.
I'm pretty sure Grant's strategy needs a name. The Cerberus Plan, anyone? I'm the imagining a Confederate cartoon where Grant is handling Hancock, Sherman, and Thomas as Cerebrus. Of course, I'm pretty sure any intended negative propaganda effects would completely backfire, and the Union will all be in for it!
To: @DTF955Baseballfan:
As long as they keep the tune! But perhaps it comes in both Alabamian and Georgian flavors?
Or to paraphrase TheKnightIrish, "We Want No Banks Here!" - perhaps one of the few things both Yank and Reb high command can agree on.
Also, @Red_Galiray: any strategic maps in the wings?
I'm a poor mapmaker. I'll see if I have something...
That would allow Grant to run on a "let us have peace" platform too, given that after the war and early Reconstruction the people are bound to be tired and just want order and stability.
I so want a scene of Lincoln touring Egypt, as he said he wanted to do.Besides - look what the war has done to Lincoln! Let the poor man retire and enjoy the rest of his life with the kids and grandkids!
Seriously though, I do suspect Lincoln will become the Old Man of the Party during his post-presidency; he'll make sure his opinions are made known and will lobby to make sure that Reconstruction doesn't get unwound during the terms of his successors. But, other than that - I expect he spends a good deal of time reconnecting with Robert (how many of Lincoln's children are surviving this presidency?), helping the careers of his children, spending time with the grandkids, and writing his memoirs. I think a third term is the very last thing he'd want; both because he was aware of the precedence of Washington, but mainly because the Presidency had become such a burden for him during the war and though he wasn't wont to complain about it (he figured he was put there for a reason) I can't imagine that he's going to want 12 years in office.
Lincoln will probably retain a lot of sway and influence over the Republican Party. Akin to Jackson.
That would be less irregular than being in the Cabinet or VP, especially given that Supreme Court Justices often remained serious political players - like David Davis or Chase.
It is really fun to imagine what historiography looks like ITTL. Especially compared with ours. Like, "what do you mean McDowell isn't seen as a hero of the Republic?" Doubleday likely becomes something of a historic meme, especially if somehow the rumor that he created baseball remains.
Doubleday could at least be a big promoter of baseball - hey, maybe he advocates for integrated sports.
Sherman, despite the memes, would be a terrible politician. Both for not having the necessary qualities, simply not wanting, and his politics being bad.
What differentiates Grant from the rest is that he's not afraid of Lee. And Lee knows this.
At this level, war is politics. They are inseparable, especially given that this is a democracy. The Union is lucky they elected Lincoln. Someone less talented could have led them to disaster already.
And yes, it's time for Marching through Alabama! It doesn't have the same ring, but maybe they will come a Georgia version later
Unionists and freedmen get redistributed traitor land as a bonus.
That explains it lol. I was really wondering where you were but at least now you have a lot to read instead of having to wait for my sometimes slow updates.My apologies, I believe I was lost in Texas.
I am currently reading everything that I've missed since the spring.
This system is sometimes so weird. I think it should also send a notification if a threadmark is added.
Given that the Union started with most of Maryland in rebel hands this result isn't too bad. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
That's what i like to hear! Death to the Confederacy!
And i can already see an epitheth for Grant: Scourge of the South.
Sherman too: Bane of the Confederacy
Speaking of Egypt, any chance butterflies could affect its development ITTL?
When you put it that way, the Army of the Susquehanna would appear a lot less pathetic than the Army of the Potomac for actually taking Maryland (though historiography won't be as kind). Writing OTL events ITTL would make the Virginia Campaigns after the Peninsula Campaign looks something out of Isonzo. 1862-1864 is practically about breaking the Confederate line along the Rappahannock and Rapidan Line, with 6 separate offensives (Pope's initial push, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, Meade's push before Bristoe Station, Mine Run and finally the Wilderness).
Another point on ITTL's historiography: A.S. Johnson would definitely have a better reputation than OTL. Although he did ultimately get crushed badly, he had some wins versus none IOTL. Another potential importance for his character is his status. I assume he's in a PoW camp awaiting trial? It would be interesting to consider how his trial would be used. A treason trial would naturally bring on the legality of secession, no doubt a hot topic for Reconstruction politics.
For those of us ignorant in Egyptian history, how did the US Civil War affect Egypt? I know Egypt benefited from the removal of Southern cotton in the markets and that a couple of Confederate generals (Sibley and W.W. Loring - not the greatest pair) were involved with the Egyptian army during the Egyptian-Ethiopian war but that's the extent of my knowledge. With the South even more devastated post-war and freed slaves in control of the plantation and farms, it would be interesting to consider how this would affect cotton prices. It's probable that freedmen aren't exactly too eager to grow cotton though it earn plenty. It could keep prices relatively elevated on the relatively slowdown in cotton export recovery vs OTL, which could in turn affect Egypt, though I'm not sure what they'd use the money for.
On a side note, if the Redeemers never take control, economic development in the South may not be as slow as OTL. The "colonial" economy created in the South did restrict many rural laborers from moving to industries and eliminated incentives for mechanizing Southern agriculture.
I can see Lincoln trying to empower local Republican/Unionist scalawags as much as possible to build a sustainable Southern Republican party organization in his Reconstruction instead of just appointing Northern carpetbaggers to dictate Southern policies like IOTL. Just remember that political carpetbaggers were and are NOT popular generally - this is also the case for appointed Northern Carpetbaggers - who lacked local support base and had to rely on federal patronage.
Couldn't the federal government just recognize the CSA but not it's illegal attempt at annexation of Dixie? That would technically make the rebels supporters of a foreign government in making war on the United States, therefore they'd be traitors.
United States Constitution, Article III, Section 3:
So, assembling an army and attacking federal property, other states, and the capital itself is a pretty clear-cut example of Treason. I suppose even supplying the rebel army and paying taxes of the Confederate government technically counts as "giving them Aid and Comfort". You can also argue that slaves, not being citizens, also cannot be charged with Treason by definition.