Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Indeed.
Pity that this is (likely) going to be the equivalent of the Battle of the Bulge for this Alt!ACW. It looks like they can turn it around or at least force some kind of peace, but the moment their enemies get their shit together, they will eventually dilute like a sugar cube on water.
Vince
Monthly Donor
The attempt on Lincoln's life enrages the Union and lights a fire under their collective assess would be my guess.
dentista campora
Banned
Kill lincoln, do eeeeeet!
Turn the Union armies and policy into what the southerners think it is! Death to all slavers!
Turn the Union armies and policy into what the southerners think it is! Death to all slavers!
Good old Abe ain't going to die here but whoever dies here is going to go down as a martyr for the Union. This assassination will be the last fire needed for the Union to pull it together and deal one final blow to the Confederates.
Indeed. It's going to be quite the Charlie Foxtrot, particularly since none of the would-be killers survived the attack.
I can see most Union newspapers running the news that the Confederates organized a murder attempt on Abraham Lincoln, which Breckinridge would, of course, protest (since he is a "gentleman" and gentlemen don't do that sort of stuff) while the Rebel newspapers attempt to claim it's only caused because even the Unionists want to stop the war but can't because of "Lincolnite tyranny".
Vince
Monthly Donor
Was that specified? I thought the update said there were 3 assassins, 3 people in the building (McReynolds, Lincoln, and his bodyguard) and 4 people die. We know Lincoln survives the end of the war. There's a possibility some of the assassins could still be alive.
Now that I think about it, McReynolds being killed might enrage the North even more than Lincoln's death might. Just imagine the Union declaring "These supposedly 'honorable' and 'gallant' rebels have to resort to a cowardly attack and murdered the man that beat Lee!".
Yeah I'm starting to think the hero of Union Mills won't survive this.
WOOOO!!! The Man Is Back!
That could also be a cleavage line in the potential post-war party system, with the native Blacks asserting a much more divisive political line than some of the more idealist visions coming from Northern Radicals.
The dream of the Freedmen doesn't necessarily mean integration, especially if a dual system seems viable to them. A push for Black States is definitely something I could see being floated the moment the military occupation of the south gets ceded over to Republican machines, machines with roots in the Black Soldier class.
Some wind in the sails for the war party, so long as Lincoln is well enough to tell the story. Red said that Lincoln lives through the war, but that doesn't mean he can't be injured now and die from complications after Reconstruction starts.
But if he's unhurt, or only slightly, he'll have an air of invincibility/fortitude that can carry him along through 1864.
With earlier and more substantial use of negro soldiers, there's going to be more two-way animosity in the post war years. I wouldn't be surprised if there are earlier moves for segregation in some places from the Freedmen. Soldiers and freed slaves are going to be the bulk of the Black population in the South after the war and with the first hand experience of combat like this being more and more prevalent, separation away from the White Southerners will be a great deal of people's objective for the post war order.
That could also be a cleavage line in the potential post-war party system, with the native Blacks asserting a much more divisive political line than some of the more idealist visions coming from Northern Radicals.
The dream of the Freedmen doesn't necessarily mean integration, especially if a dual system seems viable to them. A push for Black States is definitely something I could see being floated the moment the military occupation of the south gets ceded over to Republican machines, machines with roots in the Black Soldier class.
Some wind in the sails for the war party, so long as Lincoln is well enough to tell the story. Red said that Lincoln lives through the war, but that doesn't mean he can't be injured now and die from complications after Reconstruction starts.
But if he's unhurt, or only slightly, he'll have an air of invincibility/fortitude that can carry him along through 1864.
That depends on who pushes or stalls the momentum in the aftermath of the war. Who is Lincoln's Vice President here, again?
Hello,
So, two possibilities stem from this incident. How will events progress if...
The President is killed or incapacitated to the point of not being able to continue his duties
The President survives
In regards to the first possibility, Lincoln's Vice President is...
millercenter.org
Would he be a worthy successor to Lincoln regarding how to bring the Civil War to a satisfactory conclusion and beyond?
Would Hamlin as President alter the outcome of the 1864 elections? Would Andrew Johnson still be a necessary choice as Vice-President?
www.chicagotribune.com
As for Lincoln's survival and continuance as President, how would this incident need to be treated? There would be calls to investigate how this state of affairs came about and the possibility does exist for accusations of incompetence in providing security for the President. As others have noted this event may spur greater effort to conclude the War but with the added notion that the Confederates in their desperation were willing to take the conflict to a new level of ruthlessness and violence.
So, two possibilities stem from this incident. How will events progress if...
The President is killed or incapacitated to the point of not being able to continue his duties
The President survives
In regards to the first possibility, Lincoln's Vice President is...
Hannibal Hamlin (1861–1865) | Miller Center
Would Hamlin as President alter the outcome of the 1864 elections? Would Andrew Johnson still be a necessary choice as Vice-President?
Lincoln's vice-presidential switch changed history
www.chicagotribune.com
As for Lincoln's survival and continuance as President, how would this incident need to be treated? There would be calls to investigate how this state of affairs came about and the possibility does exist for accusations of incompetence in providing security for the President. As others have noted this event may spur greater effort to conclude the War but with the added notion that the Confederates in their desperation were willing to take the conflict to a new level of ruthlessness and violence.
Hamlin isn't Lincoln's VP ITTL, Justice John McLean is, but I'm pretty sure he is dead.In regards to the first possibility, Lincoln's Vice President is...
Would he be a worthy successor to Lincoln regarding how to bring the Civil War to a satisfactory conclusion and beyond?Hannibal Hamlin (1861–1865) | Miller Center
Would Hamlin as President alter the outcome of the 1864 elections? Would Andrew Johnson still be a necessary choice as Vice-President?
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Well looks like Sherman will be needed to break the South once and for all after this assassination attempt. Will make his OTL March look like kids picking daisies
We're back in action! ...It's a grim return though. Two major campaigns, both of which turn into meatgrinders with little effect.
That's a cliffhanger alright. I don't know that much about the culture of the mid 19th century, how much would an assassination attempt on the head of state by an enemy country enrage people? If Lincoln fights off some attackers personally though, that'll make him look GREAT for the polls.
That's a cliffhanger alright. I don't know that much about the culture of the mid 19th century, how much would an assassination attempt on the head of state by an enemy country enrage people? If Lincoln fights off some attackers personally though, that'll make him look GREAT for the polls.
I can see the cliffhanger left a strong impression in all of you, just as planned 
I would like to hear your impression's about the rest of the update as well too, if you have any to share.
Now that you've presumably read the story, what are your impressions?
I WILL finish this.
?
?
I would like to hear your impression's about the rest of the update as well too, if you have any to share.Thanks! Me neither! I make no promises, but I'll try to make the wait shorter this time.
Thanks
Now that you've presumably read the story, what are your impressions?It ain't going nowhere
I WILL finish this.I don't know... would I
?Thank you
Thanks for the maps! And here's a more personal thank you for your help. Without you, my rough outlines could have never become actual realistic battles. I hope the cliffhanger surprised you too, given that you were more aware of my plans than most. At this point, I think it's a given that the people will think the Confederacy organized this. It wouldn't be too outlandish, given that they already orchestrated the New York and Baltimore riots.Oh what a cliffhanger! Since we know Lincoln will survive, that leaves the possibility of Lyons and/or Reynolds being among the dead. No doubt, the North's reaction to the attempted assassination is not going to be pretty, especially if they believe that this was orchestrated by the Confederate government. Losing Reynolds would be bad for the Army of the Susquehanna's morale and would leave command in Sedgwick's hands, who really did not like responsibility. This could then devolve into a shouting match between Meade and Doubleday about who deserves command of the Army of the Susquehanna. Losing Lyon would open up the position of General-in-chief. Reynolds would be entitled to command it... if he survived. Alternatively, all three assassins and only Ward Hill Lamon was killed.
Part of the problem with such rules is that it becomes a never ending cycle of violence. I mean, especially in smaller theatres and away from the authority of both governments, such kind of warfare is probably going to only increase. But Lincoln and Breckinridge for the most part don't want that to become the norm. They will hang guerrillas, trial and hang war criminals, and reenslave/assign to forced works captured enemies, but they don't want their armies to go into battle with the express intent of butchering the other side. Of course, their influence is limited and we'll probably continue to see massacres, antipathy or even public sentiment impeding the prosecution of the offenders by their own side.
Lincoln: "Any of you want to try it, come on and whet your horns!"
Thanks! I was afraid some people wouldn't think this counterattack realistic. It's true that the Confederacy is against the ropes, but this desperation is what impels them to these final attempts to turn the tide. In hindsight, this may be remember like the German Army after Stalingrad. Their defeat was sealed, the enemy's superiority meaning that they will lose eventually, but they still have enough fighting spirit and resources to resist for a while longer. But the end is in sight.
Yes, because at the end of the day these defeats are as much owed to Northern mistakes as to Southern actions.
I mean, I do not think Lincoln dying would have a positive effect on Reconstruction and war policy. Lincoln exhibited, in my opinion, just the right mix of magnanimity, mercy, firmness and committment. I can hardly think of anyone who could have done a better job.
It may also finally make the North realize that among some Southerners the hatred they feel towards the Union and the methods they are willing to utilize are absolutely monstrous. It's sad, but the assassination of a prominent White leader probably would have more of a result than the massacre of hundreds of Blacks.
I think there are a lot of interest Alternate Histories within this TL. What if McDowell survived and McClellan never took over the Army of the Susquehanna? What if Pemberton had resisted and allowed Johnston to free Port Hudson before he faced Grant? What if Thomas' attack against Dalton didn't stall?
Oh, I wouldn't dare kill Thomas... would I
?It'd probably be similar to how many Southerners suddenly said Lincoln was their best friend and that they mourned his death when in truth many celebrated at the moment.
Three assassins, and actually four people in the building: Reynolds (Not McReynolds, just Reynolds), Lincoln, Lyons and his bodyguard. I will leave you all in suspense regarding who exactly are among the four dead people.
I actually think that, sadly, a push for integration in the inmediate aftermath of the war could do more harm than good, because it could prevent the building up of a White Republican constituency. In this regard, maybe these animosities could result in Black people themselves desiring social segregation, which implies merely social interaction but allows integration in public services and facilities, most importantly the government.
Following his victory in Mississippi, Grant found himself in a situation similar to that of Thomas: with an enormous expanse under his control but which was swarming with guerrillas and full of people who desperately need his protection and aid. That has slowed him down, but he is committed to taking Mobile. Yet, like other Union generals, his command was greatly weakened by the leaving of thousands of veterans, and he had to let go of even more so that they will return in time for a spring offensive. This gave Cleburne enough breathing room to go and reinforce Johnston. Now, of course, Grant is Lincoln's favorite general and probably a shoe-in for either the Army of the Susquehanna or General in-chief depending on the results of the cliffhanger.
Hamlin isn't Vice-president, indeed. McLean was, because Senator Lincoln obtained a somewhat radical reputation. Not as radical as Seward (funny how that turned out) but enough that the Republicans thought that it'd be better to pair McLean the steady conservative with him. It was also a nice fuck you to Buchanan. But then McLean died a year into the war, which thus far has been of no real consequence given the powerlessness of the VP.
Lincoln was still a robust man during the Civil War, strong and imposing with his height. I think he would actually try to physically fight off the attackers.
I can imagine Lincoln re-enacting his 1831 fight and chokeslamming one of the attackers into the ground.
If Lincoln actually holds his own in the fight, he will be, without question, the most badass American President. In the short term, posters depicting (an artist's impression of) the fight will be widely distributed as propaganda.