That's pretty much where my life has gone in the last few decades as well...searching for relief from the depressing reality of life and politics in the USA. So, don't disappoint us, Red, we deserve better.
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Don't worry. I was joking haha. Though perhaps after I finish the TL, I could add "alternate endings", kind of like an alternate history within the alternate history. This is the bad ending.
TTL's Leeabos probably say the retreating Yankees burnt D.C.
Everytime I remember the Golden Circle and the CSA's designs for Central and South America, I shudder.
Ben Shapiro DESTROYS the Union with FACTS and LOGIC!
Yeah, it's just a joke, something I saw and reddit and decided to post. Just in case, the Union is indeed going to win, and a Lincoln-led Radical Reconstruction will take place.
The sad reality.
Don't worry, this US will be better. It will have a new birth of freedom, where liberty and justice for all regardless of the color of their skin is the law of the land.
Centralization and the Imperial Presidency occuring earlier (implied by a "Lincoln-led Radical Reconstruction") are small prices to pay for this.
Prepare for a wild and oftentimes bitter ride as Lincoln and Congressional Republicans struggle for control of Reconstruction. In OTL, Radical Republicans already accused Lincoln of "executive usurpation", of striking a blow "at the rights of humanity, and at the principles of Republican Government", and called his pocket veto of the Wade-Davis Bill "a studied outrage on the legislative authority."
On the other hand, I've always been a proponent of greater centralization and oversight by the central government, so I don't really see centralization of the US as something inherently bad. Just a heads up to take into account that, because even if I always try to be objective, my biases may show in the future.
Chapter 18: From the Mississippi's winding stream
Chapter 18: From the Mississippi's winding Stream
When he assumed the office of President of the United States, Lincoln was already a savvy political leader, experienced Senator, able lawyer, and recognized statesman. Yet like all other people, Lincoln was not perfect. He was flawed, and could make mistakes, something that may be hard to comprehend due to the near canonization he has gone through. His views evolved through the war, and he became more proficient in the game of politics and war. Not a military man by any standard, Lincoln still wanted to weight in when it came to military strategy. He recognized that war was simply another way to achieve political aims, and as such he always had to take into political factors in order to take decisions. This was what pushed him towards ordering a perhaps hasty assault on Baltimore.
The President well knew that the fall of Washington gave a lot of legitimacy to the Confederacy, and was a hard blow against his administration. He had managed to spin the event into an advantageous situation, maintaining the North united behind him and alighting their war spirit. Yet Lincoln was also continually harassed by the opposition, popular opinion, and the press. They all expected a quick and glorious victory, and at first it seemed that McDowell had achieved it, driving the rebels back and taking Baltimore. But both the press and the President were disappointed when they learned that, first, McDowell would not attack again but go into winter quarters, and second, just how hard-fought that victory had been. The Baltimore campaign spell an end to the conception of the war as an affair of 90 days.
A long and prolongated campaign in the South was feared by everyone. General in-chief Winfield Scott always disapproved of it, and that’s why he favored his Anaconda Plan as a way to strangle the South into submission without having to invade every inch of their soil, something that would cause untold devastation. For his part, Quartermaster General Meigs believed that “It was better to whip them here than to go far into an unhealthy country to fight them”, and Lincoln tended to agree with him, feeling that a decisive blow that shattered the rebels and took Washington and then Richmond would be enough to end the Confederacy. With newspapers loudly proclaiming that “the rebels cannot be allowed to continue their occupation of our capital for a single more day” and that “Richmond must be taken before the end of the year”, Lincoln’s resolve stiffened.
The Baltimore Campaign caused mixed feelings in both combatants. There were people who gave into despair, grim determination or enthusiasm, Yankees and Dixie boys alike. A New York newspaper claimed that the “Battle for Baltimore will be engraved in the annals of history as one of the most important battles of the world” but Horace Greeley on the other hand was so sickened by the ghastly scenes of combat and long lists of casualties that he wrote to Lincoln an apology for his “onward to Washington” editorial. “If it is best for the country and for mankind that we make peace with the rebels, and on their own terms, do not shrink even from that, lest we have to subdue them at the price of millions”, Greeley wrote.
Horace Greeley
As for the South, many more despaired. “A month ago, we believed the fall of the Federal city had secured our independence,” wrote a War Department clerk, “but it seems like the Yankees will not stop at anything except our complete destruction.” Others tried to spin the news differently, for example saying that “the gallant defense provided by General Beauregard proves once and for all that the Yankees will never again advance beyond cannon shot of Baltimore.” Breckinridge used the news as a rousing call to his people: “After a series of successes and victories, we have met with a serious disaster. Yet we must not despair. Adversity is the great fire that tries men and nations, and the blood we have shed is the great price for liberty and freedom. Let us continue forward, working with more eagerness than before, with trust in eventual victory and faith in the right.”
Both Heads of State decided to change their strategies following Baltimore. Lincoln decided to embrace the Anaconda Plan and set a plan for expanding and reorganizing the armies in Maryland, and selected Washington, Memphis and Knoxville as main objectives. He also reshuffled his generals, replacing Patterson with Nathaniel P. Banks, appointing the Pathfinder of the West John C. Frémont to Missouri, and sending William T. Sherman, who had performed admirably at Townstown, to Kentucky. Butler was too influential to be disregarded, so he was sent to Baltimore to administer the temporary military government, being the one who conducted the arrests that caused so much controversy. Lincoln’s secretary John Nicolay wrote that “the fat is all in the fire now, and we shall have to work harder to finish the rebellion. The preparations for the war will be continued with increased vigor by the government.”
Butler and Frémont were both examples of “political generals.” As commander in-chief, Lincoln had the right to appoint generals, but these appointments were subjected to confirmation by the Senate, which turned them into highly politicized contests. Lincoln and Breckinridge had to consider “factors of party, faction, and state as carefully in appointing generals as in naming cabinet officers or postmasters.” The electoral disarray of former Democrats and the National Union gave Lincoln more strength in this regard, but he still sought to cultivate the loyalty and support of them by appointing Democratic politicians such as Butler, and leaders of immigrant communities, like Carl Schultz. For his part, Breckinridge was practically forced to appoint such men as Toombs, Wise and Floyd, to get their support and satisfy their ego and thirst for glory.
The appointment of such “Political generals” to important posts was decried by professional military men. Major General Henry W. Halleck complained that “it seems but little better than murder to give important commands to such men as Banks and Butler”, but recognized that it was a political necessity, even if it sometimes resulted in the commissioning of incompetent men. On the other hand, two thirds of the almost 600 generals commissioned by the Union had some kind of previous military experience, and officers who had had to ascend through the ranks often bitterly complained of the existence of a “West Point clique” that controlled the Army and promotions. Some of the very best officers, like Grant and Sherman, owed their appointments to politicians; conversely, some professional generals also showed incompetence. Nonetheless, most people saw “political generals” as incompetent.
When it came to the rebels, Breckinridge faced increasing difficulties. Though losing Baltimore was hard, now Beauregard had a more defensible position behind the Patapsco. However, the Federals retained their positions in Frederik and Annapolis, and it didn’t seem like he had the strength to dislodge them. Breckinridge also faced broader strategic difficulties. Like their American forefathers, Confederates sought to defend a new nation from conquest. The large size of the Confederacy made “Lincoln's task as difficult as Napoleon's in 1812 or George III's in 1776.” Breckinridge tended to agree with defensive oriented men such as Davis and Johnston over aggressive but dynamic generals like Beauregard or later Lee. He did not wish for military victory, but rather to win by not losing, to force the North to give up in the face of stern Southern resistance that would render the war too costly in blood and gold to continue.
Benjamin Butler
To achieve this, Breckinridge and Davis created what would come to be known as an “offensive-defensive” strategy. By limiting themselves to defense unless the opportunity for attack presented itself, the South sought to concentrate its forces against invaders but retain the capacity to shatter the Yankees’ armies and morale. But the Confederacy’s main advantage was also its mortal enemy – while Washington had been willing to give up territory so as to gain time and maintain his army intact, the zealous and fearful Confederates were not willing to give up even an inch to the Lincolnites. Scared of the “abolition hordes and monstrous Black Republicans”, Southerners demanded troops to protect themselves and their property from Yankees. In several occasions, Governors prevented their militias from joining the main Army so as to protect their states. This further aggravated the Confederacy’s situation, for the Yankees not only had more men, but they could concentrate them while small rebel armies sat idly on border areas.
Like Lincoln, Breckinridge had to fight against the criticism of the press and the senses of destiny and dignity of his officers. The President already confessed frustration with the press’ demands for attacks, such as the Richmond Examiner’s declaration that "The idea of waiting for blows, instead of inflicting them, is altogether unsuited to the genius of our people," or Tennessee’s demands “for a column to march, and drive the Yankee despots from their strongholds to the Ohio’s mighty waters. Only by attacking can we secure liberty.” Similarly, he had to content with frequent fights between Beauregard, Johnston and Davis. This “Triumvirate of Petticoats”, as he referred to them when especially annoyed, would often cause problems for him and his Confederacy.
In any case, Breckinridge welcomed McDowell’s decision as an opportunity for Beauregard to rest and reinforce. In the meantime, he had to deal with Yankee attacks from the sea and at the west. Dealing with the Yankee navy was the hardest, since Breckinridge had no navy to speak of and his brief flirting with privateers and his newfound focus in commerce raiding hadn’t had much success yet. The Union retained control of Point West in Florida and also of Hampton Roads through Fort Monroe, opposite of Norfolk, which the Confederates had captured intact after secession, scoring the ship USS Merrimack too. Needing more supply bases to maintain their blockade, the Union attacked many smaller ports and inlets in the South. The first action took place at Hatteras Inlet, in North Carolina. A “nest of pirates” formed by a treacherous coast often attacked by even more treacherous storms, Hatteras Inlet was the only one navigable by large ships. It protected the Albemarle and Pamlico sounds, and served as Richmond’s main sea access.
In August, 1861, a flotilla of Union ships and some 900 men led by Ambrose Burnside approached. An Indiana-born West Pointer, Burnside had seen action at Baltimore. His performance and that of the volunteers of his beloved Rhode Island was good enough, but it did not gain notoriety for him. He would later accept a promotion to brigadier, and be assigned to North Carolina. Tall and energetic, Burnside was characterized by his friendly and affable personality, which won the affections of men like McClellan (who called him “Dear Burn”) and also by his impressive whiskers, to the point that an anagram of his name would be created to designate such a style of facial hair – sideburns.
Despite the widespread belief that ships alone couldn’t subdue a fort, the flotilla was able to easily overcome the undermanned and undersupplied forts, forcing their surrender. Burnside didn’t see much action after all. The Yankees managed another easy victory by taking Ship Island, just off the coast of Mississippi, a fine prize which opened the possibility of taking New Orleans. Their next big objective was Port Royal, South Carolina. The massive fleet of 17 ships and 12,000 infantry. The infantry was unable to take the forts, being bloodied in a frontal assault. Such a failure motivated Flag Officer Samuel du Pont to try a hitherto unheard strategy. Naval doctrine dictated that “a gun in land is equal to four in a ship”, but steam technology allowed Du Pont’s battleships to fire into the forts while moving in an oval pattern that made it hard to hit them. The Federals prevailed, and the Confederate defenders and white civilians fled inland. Together with the sea islands, the Federals obtained rich cotton and plantations and 10,000 black slaves – now known as “contrabands”. The policies regarding contrabands and African-American participation in the war must be considered separately, however.
Ambrose Burnside
The glorious victory at Baltimore was joined by naval triumphs that did not have the bitter aftertaste of missed opportunities and a high human cost to sully them. The Navy’s successes in the later half of 1861 and early 1862 helped to bring Yankee morale to the highest levels yet – and Southern morale to new lows. Robert E. Lee disappointed Southerners again by his failure to retake or defend the South Atlantic Coast. To be fair to the “King of Spades”, he did not have the necessary resources, lacking men, artillery and ammunitions. He was right when he regarded the whole enterprise as “another forlorn hope – worse than West Virginia.” He stared impotently as the Union took Saint Augustine, Florida, and Fort Pulaski, thus closing Savanah. Without a navy to stop them, Lee could do nothing but concentrate his meager forces in some strategic strongpoints.
The Navy achieved another victory, and this time Burnside shared the triumph and the resulting glory. After a battle with the unruly weather in February 1862, Burnside and his dashing Rhode Islanders arrived to Roanoke Island, the key to control of the North Carolina sounds. The rebel commander was John B. Floyd, the former secretary of war. His quest for military recognition had floundered in West Virginia due to his feud with former governor of Virginia Henry A. Wise, who had resigned his governorship, all in the search of military glory. Both were “political generals”, and as such Breckinridge hadn’t been able to dismiss them completely, but Wise’s pivotal role in Virginia’s secession gave him more cloud.
Similarly to Lee, Floyd was exiled to a coastal position. At least his experience allowed him to recognize just how unsuitable his “mosquito fleet” was, and to see that taking Roanoke was th natural follow-up to the victory at Hatteras Inlet. Breckinridge answered his pleads for men and guns in December, knowing that losing North Carolina’s coast would strengthen the blockade and that losing “Richmond’s backdoor” would complicate operations in Virginia and Maryland. On recommendation by Johnston, Breckinridge chose the Virginian James Longstreet to lead these reinforcements. Brave, compassionate and smart, Longstreet was also known as a fun and loyal man, who often partied and played poker in his headquarters. He left Richmond just before an outbreak of scarlet fever. His three sons caught mild cases, but his one-year old daughter Mary Anne fell gravely sick. She managed to recuperate eventually, but the experienced chastened Longstreet. He retained his affable personality, but became more disciplined – the poker games stopped.
The Yankees predictably won at sea, landing in Roanoke Island. Fighting through difficult and often fetid swamps, the Federals managed reached the entrenched rebel lines. However, instead of smashing through them, they were bombarded by Longstreet’s guns. Many of those guns had come South thanks to Floyd. Longstreet and his men resisted admirably, and forced the Yankee to conquer the island at the price of their blood, in a situation that reminded many of the hard-fought battle for Federal Hill at Baltimore. However, no matter their bravery, the rebels could simply not contest Burnside’s dominance at sea. After almost two weeks of fighting, Longstreet evacuated Roanoke, without losing a single gun. Elizabeth City and other ports were similarly indefensible – Burnside’s fleet simply destroyed the mosquito fleet, and took control of the North Carolina sounds. But the price was the heavy toll of 3,500 men, compared to the Confederacy’s 2,000 losses. Still, it was a big victory. Longstreet, for his part, earned a place in the pantheon of Southern heroes, and he would remain there to face Burnside, should the newly minted major general try to continue an invasion.
Longstreet’s resistance took a bit out of the sting of losing the North Carolina sounds, but the Southern people were still appalled. A Congressional Committee was formed to investigate the disaster, and it ultimately exonerated all involved parties – Floyd, Longstreet, Breckinridge, and Davis. However, it recognized that losing North Carolina meant a tighter blockade and also opened the possibility of Burnside invading the state and taking Richmond from the rear. In account of his bravery and skill, Longstreet was retained in North Carolina to face such as threat.
James Longstreet
Another newly appointed Departmental Commander fared much worse. John C. Frémont, the commander of the Western Department, carried a good clout with the Republican party, having been their nominee in 1856. Naïve, ambitious and eager for adventure and victory, Frémont was appointed mostly because the Radical wing of the Party favored him, but he also carried experience in the topographical corps of the pre-war army. Lincoln had told him "I have given you carte blanche. You must use your own judgment, and do the best you can”, but perhaps that wasn’t the best idea. He was showy and bombastic, prone to accepting inflated contracts that caused controversy in the press, and taking actions with reckless speed. Believing that whoever held the Mississippi “would hold the country by the heart,” Frémont prepared for an incursion down the mighty river.
Fortunately for the Union and Missouri, Frémont’s subordinate was the able and rough but extremely popular Nathaniel Lyon. Lyon still felt his failure to prevent the rebels from taking the guns of the St. Louis arsenal, both personally and militarily. Decided to finish what he had started and crush treason in Missouri, Lyon set forth with 6,000 men to face Sterling Price and his new commander, Ben McCulloh. McCulloh had brought with him 5,000 Confederate reinforcements. He did not trust Price’s 8,000 Missourians, because even if they were now armed adequately, they lacked training and discipline. This numerical superiority did not faze Lyon, who took Springfield and prepared to attack. Despite Frémont’s confusing orders and lack of support, Lyon was not willing to give up Missouri.
In what could be either madness or genius, Lyon divided his numerically inferior force, sending some “Dutch” troops under Franz Siegel to attack the southern rebel flank at Wilson’s Creek. Siegel did this successfully, but his attack disintegrated after a Confederate regiment wearing grey uniforms similar to those of his Iowans attacked. Mistaking them for friends for far too long, the Federals exposed themselves and were driven back. Price then focused on Lyon’s main force, and finally forced him to retreat after the red bearded Federal had had his horse shot from under him. Each side lost some 1,500 men, but obviously Lyon’s force lost a greater proportion. Lyon retreated all the way back to Lexington, where Price surrounded him with 18,000 men. But Lyon again would not surrender his 5,000 men. Lyon managed to resist the siege, hoping that Frémont would break the Confederate ring. Frémont only managed to punctuate it briefly, and once again Lyon was forced to retreat, something that filled him with rage and shame. Thanks to Frémont, he thought, the Confederates had taken half of Missouri.
Sterling Price
The whole debacle destroyed Frémont’s reputation with the Administration and the soldiers, mainly Lyon. He may have been able to survive the event, hadn’t he acted rashly and issued an expansive and controversial proclamation that, among other things, liberated all the slaves of pro-Confederate activists or guerrillas in Missouri. Military failure was one thing, but through his actions Frémont also complicated Lincoln’s effort in Kentucky and added to mounting controversies regarding emancipation in Kansas and contrabands in Maryland. Though Lincoln could take solace in Burnside’s victories at North Carolina and Ulysses S. Grant’s successes in Kentucky, the new year dawned with increasing political, military and social complications as the Administration grappled with the questions of how to follow the Baltimore campaign and how to deal with the slavery. But the broader question was becoming clear: was this a war for the Union? Or a war for Union and Liberty?
_________________________________
AN: I meant to write an update dealing only with the West, but somehow ended up writing about broader strategy and explaining the war at sea. Crazy how that happens, huh? Anyway, in the next update Grant will finally see some action, and I'll also talk of the controversies regarding contrabands and slavery. Also, OTL Longstreet's daughter and two of his sons died of scarlet fever, something that affected him profoundly. Longstreet is the only Confederate for whom I feel any sympathy, so I decided to butterfly that away. And just in case any of you are wondering, no, this is not the end of Lee.
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As expected, Johnny Reb got his butt kicked at sea.
Can't wait for Grant to kick some rebel behind!
Honestly, I can see Lincoln moving Fremont to some out of the way position and promoting Lyon to Fremont's job after resisting the siege like that. Hopefully Grant will be able to counter for these early losses.
Can't wait for Grant to kick some rebel behind!
Honestly, I can see Lincoln moving Fremont to some out of the way position and promoting Lyon to Fremont's job after resisting the siege like that. Hopefully Grant will be able to counter for these early losses.
what's up with the French? Still planning on their Mexican adventure?
Didn't Fremont, even in OTL, have a lot of foreign emissaries at his post - or is that hearsay?
Can't remember where its was said, but I know I read it somewhere, and he was apparently rather disorganised in his staff postings.
Can't remember where its was said, but I know I read it somewhere, and he was apparently rather disorganised in his staff postings.
Cool, a tighter noose around the Confederacy and Lyon dividing its Force reminding me of Lee OTL at Chancellorsville. I wonder if he is in for more Fame then.
Also great to see Burnside doing well. He was really good at what he did and knew his limits. Part of me does wonder about a Normandy style invasion.
Indeed, I wonder how much the public would expect it or if they figure that it's not realistic to invade from the sea like that. And, I'm not sure exactly where you would do it anyway.
If Longstreet becomes the main Confederate hero and he winds up doing as in our timeline and becoming a republican that would really help things, especially if he is really radical. I'm having his daughter get really sick but survive might make a difference in how he changes but seeing black troops do well against his forces might make him even more likely to support equality.
Balloons were used a little but not very much, perhaps not as much as they could have been, during the Civil War. I wonder if a balloon Brigade gets more notoriety in this timeline. I wonder what Union general would be the commander to decide to drop grenades or whatever on enemy positions from the sky. Yes, part of my thought of ballooning was because of my earlier thought on something like Normandy, as part of reconnaissance, but the idea of dropping stuff from the sky in conjunction with an invasion (or otherwise but given lack of precision just before a landing would be best) does excite me even if it may be very implausible unless directly from those islands which would mean the Confederates but no it was coming and be better prepared, versus having to choose between several beaches to defend.
Aw, man, I talked myself into actually believing it to be plausible. So if you can...
Cue Sherman marching through Georgia but with Confederates shouting that the enemy was coming from the sky as well.
Also great to see Burnside doing well. He was really good at what he did and knew his limits. Part of me does wonder about a Normandy style invasion.
Indeed, I wonder how much the public would expect it or if they figure that it's not realistic to invade from the sea like that. And, I'm not sure exactly where you would do it anyway.
If Longstreet becomes the main Confederate hero and he winds up doing as in our timeline and becoming a republican that would really help things, especially if he is really radical. I'm having his daughter get really sick but survive might make a difference in how he changes but seeing black troops do well against his forces might make him even more likely to support equality.
Balloons were used a little but not very much, perhaps not as much as they could have been, during the Civil War. I wonder if a balloon Brigade gets more notoriety in this timeline. I wonder what Union general would be the commander to decide to drop grenades or whatever on enemy positions from the sky. Yes, part of my thought of ballooning was because of my earlier thought on something like Normandy, as part of reconnaissance, but the idea of dropping stuff from the sky in conjunction with an invasion (or otherwise but given lack of precision just before a landing would be best) does excite me even if it may be very implausible unless directly from those islands which would mean the Confederates but no it was coming and be better prepared, versus having to choose between several beaches to defend.
Aw, man, I talked myself into actually believing it to be plausible. So if you can...
Cue Sherman marching through Georgia but with Confederates shouting that the enemy was coming from the sky as well.
Nice update!
It's interesting to see that both OTL successes were historically diminished for the victors. It seems that Burnside's North Carolina Expedition did not begin with a crushing Union victory at Roanoke Island and won't end as an anti-climatic walk around the coast of North Carolina. At the same time, Lyon's survival prevented the more disastrous Union results in South Missouri. But a rather serious detriment to the Confederates is Longstreet's assignment to a basically backwater theater (unless Lincoln decides to go for a more ambitious amphibious approach than historical). The loss of the Confederacy's premier attacker will seriously hamper the Army of Northern Virginia's ability to wage offensive battles or counterattacks.
Can't wait to see Grant wage war in Kentucky.
It's interesting to see that both OTL successes were historically diminished for the victors. It seems that Burnside's North Carolina Expedition did not begin with a crushing Union victory at Roanoke Island and won't end as an anti-climatic walk around the coast of North Carolina. At the same time, Lyon's survival prevented the more disastrous Union results in South Missouri. But a rather serious detriment to the Confederates is Longstreet's assignment to a basically backwater theater (unless Lincoln decides to go for a more ambitious amphibious approach than historical). The loss of the Confederacy's premier attacker will seriously hamper the Army of Northern Virginia's ability to wage offensive battles or counterattacks.
Can't wait to see Grant wage war in Kentucky.
I like your vision but I doubt that balloons would be good at anything other than reconnaissance at this time.
I just finished reading this, along with the assorted comments...WONDERFUL. Now, I will be going to bed at a more sane hour; I stayed up late with it. I tend to steer away from Civil War timelines because it feels like they've been done to death, but this is an original, well thought out, and plausible timeline. I am following it now with much enthusiasm.
I'm wondering if the Gatling Gun will see more action; it was available but not used much until later.
I personally despise slavery; reading about the Amistad in second grade was when I learned that "bad guys" meant something besides the other side in a story. Slave Ship was my introduction to real, unforgivable, evil.
By the standards of rebellions of the time, the southern leaders got off lightly, considering that they remained un-hanged. The Civil War brings out my vindictive streak; moving south hasn't changed my mind.
I'm wondering if the Gatling Gun will see more action; it was available but not used much until later.
I personally despise slavery; reading about the Amistad in second grade was when I learned that "bad guys" meant something besides the other side in a story. Slave Ship was my introduction to real, unforgivable, evil.
By the standards of rebellions of the time, the southern leaders got off lightly, considering that they remained un-hanged. The Civil War brings out my vindictive streak; moving south hasn't changed my mind.
Please, remember to like the post and comment to show me your continued support and discuss the events of the TL! Even a simple "good job" can mean the world to some authors, and personally the appreciation of my readers is one of the things that motivates me the most, aside from my love of history, of course. Let me know what you think of this update!
Missouri is a mess for now, but the Union is about to strike back.
Missouri is not that disastrous for Lincoln because it's not paired with a disaster like OTL's Bull Run, but with the unambiguous victory at Baltimore. And yeah, Lyon is probably next in line for Departamental Commander.
I often daydream about the war during boring classes. It's a period of history I'm really passionate about.
Let's see if Frémon finds his path in the west.
They are already down there, but it's going quite differently. For now, I'll focus on the war.
Foote mentions that Frémont did have foreigners in his headquarters, describing them so: "Resplendent in feathers and loops of the gold braid known locally as "chicken guts," his personal staff included Hungarians and Italians with titles such as "adlatus to the chief" and names that were hardly pronounceable to a Missouri tongue; Emavic, Meizarras, Kalamaneuzze were three among many." I can't crosscheck that due to Foote's refusal to use footnotes.
I think an experience like that may produce a quite different Longstreet. The experience was sobering and painful, but it didn't shatter him and fill him with grief like it did in OTL, so perhaps he'll become more compassionate. Seeing so many people, including Black slaves, losing loved ones or being subjected to cruel treatment may touch his heartstrings.
I'm tempted to actually write about that, mostly because Jules Verne's Mystery Island is one of my favorites.
"Look at dem, Yankee sons of bitches, now they be flying! What sort of critters are they, anyway?"
I've been toying with having Burnside lead a North Carolina campaign. I'm not decided yet, but it's a possibility. In any case, Longstreet has made a profound impression in most Confederates, including Breckinridge. Since North Carolina has fallen mostly quiet, it's likely that Longstreet would be called to Virginia if the Army of the Susquehanna attacks.
Could be interesting...
Thank you very much! I'm really glad you are enjoying the TL
The Civil War and the American Revolution do seem to stand up as events were relative moderation was maintained. This is not to say that there weren't massacres or murders, but while other Civil Wars and Revolutions ended in coup after coup, Reigns of Terror, Purges and Revolutionary Tribunals, in the US the system didn't collapse in such a way.
Interesting. I got so used to the old narrator that this one sounds strange. Out-topic, but I like their series in Simon Bolivar.
SHERMAN! he a coming for you kentucky! it time to burn
the naval war seem to be going good
missuori a big lost that going make the get bod down in there
Missouri is a mess for now, but the Union is about to strike back.
Missouri is not that disastrous for Lincoln because it's not paired with a disaster like OTL's Bull Run, but with the unambiguous victory at Baltimore. And yeah, Lyon is probably next in line for Departamental Commander.
I often daydream about the war during boring classes. It's a period of history I'm really passionate about.
Let's see if Frémon finds his path in the west.
They are already down there, but it's going quite differently. For now, I'll focus on the war.
Foote mentions that Frémont did have foreigners in his headquarters, describing them so: "Resplendent in feathers and loops of the gold braid known locally as "chicken guts," his personal staff included Hungarians and Italians with titles such as "adlatus to the chief" and names that were hardly pronounceable to a Missouri tongue; Emavic, Meizarras, Kalamaneuzze were three among many." I can't crosscheck that due to Foote's refusal to use footnotes.
If Longstreet becomes the main Confederate hero and he winds up doing as in our timeline and becoming a republican that would really help things, especially if he is really radical. I'm having his daughter get really sick but survive might make a difference in how he changes but seeing black troops do well against his forces might make him even more likely to support equality.
Balloons were used a little but not very much, perhaps not as much as they could have been, during the Civil War. I wonder if a balloon Brigade gets more notoriety in this timeline. I wonder what Union general would be the commander to decide to drop grenades or whatever on enemy positions from the sky. Yes, part of my thought of ballooning was because of my earlier thought on something like Normandy, as part of reconnaissance, but the idea of dropping stuff from the sky in conjunction with an invasion (or otherwise but given lack of precision just before a landing would be best) does excite me even if it may be very implausible unless directly from those islands which would mean the Confederates but no it was coming and be better prepared, versus having to choose between several beaches to defend.
Aw, man, I talked myself into actually believing it to be plausible. So if you can...
Cue Sherman marching through Georgia but with Confederates shouting that the enemy was coming from the sky as well.
I think an experience like that may produce a quite different Longstreet. The experience was sobering and painful, but it didn't shatter him and fill him with grief like it did in OTL, so perhaps he'll become more compassionate. Seeing so many people, including Black slaves, losing loved ones or being subjected to cruel treatment may touch his heartstrings.
I'm tempted to actually write about that, mostly because Jules Verne's Mystery Island is one of my favorites.
"Look at dem, Yankee sons of bitches, now they be flying! What sort of critters are they, anyway?"
I've been toying with having Burnside lead a North Carolina campaign. I'm not decided yet, but it's a possibility. In any case, Longstreet has made a profound impression in most Confederates, including Breckinridge. Since North Carolina has fallen mostly quiet, it's likely that Longstreet would be called to Virginia if the Army of the Susquehanna attacks.
Could be interesting...
Thank you very much! I'm really glad you are enjoying the TL
The Civil War and the American Revolution do seem to stand up as events were relative moderation was maintained. This is not to say that there weren't massacres or murders, but while other Civil Wars and Revolutions ended in coup after coup, Reigns of Terror, Purges and Revolutionary Tribunals, in the US the system didn't collapse in such a way.
Interesting. I got so used to the old narrator that this one sounds strange. Out-topic, but I like their series in Simon Bolivar.
Especially casue there’s so much things that could have changed or happened differently
One scenario I kept coming back to was the confederacy winning causing
Todd Lincoln to stay in the military after the war and Robert e lee jr (after he grows up) using his father’s name to get into confederate politics
Then some time later like a decade or so the union catching confederate plantation owners kidnapping free blacks from the north
The confederacy refuses to give up said owners and contuines to smuggle in slaves and even selling them to some shady northern robber Barrons
the union sends an army to the confederate border to arrest the plantion owners and the confederacy decides to conquer the north .a second war breaks out with general Lincoln and President lee leading the War effort of the two sides
Eventually This all climaxes in Lincoln taking Richmond and finally reuniting the United States
..yes I known this all sounds like an young adult novel
You know, I just watched this interesting video about some of the ethnic groups involved in the Civil War - I was particularly intrigued by how Hawai'i was actually a hotbed for abolitionism at the time - and I'm wondering if there might be some butterflies related to that with the more radical nature of the war in this timeline; for instance, it might be interesting if Hawai'i's involvement on the Union's side led to a more positive relationship with the U.S. and maybe even joining up on better terms than what actually happened.