Until every drop of blood is paid - A more radical American Civil War

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Red_Galiray, Sep 6, 2018.

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  1. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    Yeah especially since the whole point of the war are is keeping those states in the union
     
  2. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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    I wonder just how fortified the Army of Northern Virginia can make their positions.

    Admittedly they have roughly ten weeks to prepare, but the CSA also has a commitment to protect the secessionist Baltimore government, which gives them like a fourty mile line they need to protect
     
  3. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    They could prioritize certain areas over others and try to pull a defeat in detail
    But politically speaking if they can’t defend Baltimore there screwed

    It’s be interesting to see what beurguard comes up with
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  4. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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    I thought Beauregard was in command at DC? Not that it precludes Lee at all, but as Beauregard was in the engineering corp he might be better at fortifying his position
     
  5. Red_Galiray En un pueblito al sur de Estados Unidos.

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    Beauregard is indeed the one at D.C. Lee is back at Richmond, helping to organize the defenses of Richmond, and will probably be sent to face any secondary Union threats, such as an attack through the Valley or West Virginia.
     
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  6. Ironshark Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah sorry I guessed I misread that part
     
  7. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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    Well if i had to guess how the Maryland Campaign plays out, the union troops (the Army of the Susquehanna, probably) Would be based in Havre de Grace as it keeps a solid foothold on the Maryland side of the river and is easily supplied by rail and ship.

    The union advance from there to Baltimore would probably be intercepted at Herring Run/Canton. How that goes probably depends more on troop quality and the skill of the commanders than whatever fortifications the Maryland States Guard can throw up.

    Theres also the issue of fort McHenry, which needs to be delt with to control the city.

    Thats Assuming that Beauregard focuses his own defences around D.C. to have a foothold on the north bank of the Potomac
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  8. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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  9. Athelstane Anglo-Saxon Troublemaker

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    It was discussed at the Convention, you know.

    But the conception was for a judiciary with quite modest reach and authority, and so a liberal effort was seen as not only safe but important to preserving its independence from the other branches. The doctrine of judicial review (Marbury v. Madison) may have been implied, but it wasn't expressly recognized yet. Not for nothing did Madison call it "the least dangerous branch." (Federalist #78)
     
  10. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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    I mean if you want to ignore all the times the court denied/took away peoples rights, sure its not dangerous.

    And the fact that the court could just give itself powers not delegated to it in the constitution doesn't exactly give me piece of mind.
     
  11. KaiserWilhelm Well-Known Member

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    The court has almost never done anything that would be more of a restriction on rights than would exist without the court
     
  12. Fan of Alternate History Well-Known Member

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    I hope you make Philadelphia the permanent capital of the United States. For one, I believe they chose Washington to appease the slave holding South. So screw them. Plus practically, they built the city on a swamp. In addition to the historical connection Philadelphia has as the birthplace of the United States.
     
  13. MorningDew suburbia is big gay

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    Do I really have to explain the reasons why moving the capital permanently wouldn't happen AGAIN?
     
  14. Fan of Alternate History Well-Known Member

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    I had ancestors who fought in the Civil War for both Illinois and Indiana. Another one was my 4x great uncle was born in Tennessee and died in Tennessee but he fought for Illinois. He was a Sergeant in the Illinois Cavalry.
     
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  15. Inquisitor Tolkien Well-Known Member

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    Harve de Grace probably, as it blocks off a Confederate advance towards Philly, but Fredrick also serves as a potential and highly viable base of operations (and at the very least, essential to secure). It safeguards the railroad to Harper's Ferry and, thus, the crossings into West Virginia and the Cumberland Gap, serves as the seat of the Unionist convention and movement in Maryland (and will be essential politically to defend), and provides an axis of advance that can potentially cut off and surround a Confederate defense of Baltimore, and the very least split the Confederates into defending either DC or Baltimore (but not both). It prevents a Confederate advance up central MD up towards Gettysburg, and overall offers more interesting strategic options in Maryland than an advance from the Susquehanna.

    A Maryland campaign would, for the ideal Union campaign, have 4 phases.

    1) Secure the Eastern Shore and hold the Susquehanna and Frederick, while building up overwhelming local superiority.
    2) Advance an army from the Susquehanna forward to pin Confederate forces at or near Baltimore through the political imperative to hold it, or else capture it outright.
    3) Another army, advancing out of Frederick, quickly seizes central MD and cuts off DC from Baltimore, and holds the south bank of the Patapsco Valley, effectively trapping the Confederate army. The river itself is shallow and fordable, but the valley proper provides excellent defensive terrain on both banks, with areas almost canyon-like (e.g. near Catonsville).
    4) Destruction of the Confederate army near Baltimore.

    That being said, this is something the Confederates will also realize the danger of holding Baltimore, and this strategy potentially faces defeat in detail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  16. KidCabralista Cape Verde's Unofficial Wikipedia Meister

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    (since this is a fitting place to mention it in)

    HAPPY 210TH BIRTHDAY, PRESIDENT LINCOLN!

    e00e3dcd1c63f1232764dbcc74beb082.jpg


    “Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves; and under the rule of a just God, cannot long retain it."
    --- Abraham Lincoln

     
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  17. Worffan101 Ain't done nothing if I ain't been called a Red

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    HURRAH FOR HONEST ABE! Let's have a Second American Revolution and throw out the treasonous, rotten corruption of slavery once and for all! RALLY TO THE FLAG FOR FREEDOM!
     
  18. Red_Galiray En un pueblito al sur de Estados Unidos.

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    That's a nice picture. Hurrah for Honest Abe!
     
  19. piratedude Pirate Lord of the Great Lakes

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  20. Red_Galiray En un pueblito al sur de Estados Unidos.

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    Damn, I can't listen to it. That's my favorite version of Lincoln and Liberty.
     
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