Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War

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generalurist

IT LIVES! And that's a damn fine update. Lincoln was looking pretty poorly at the start, but his political genius showed through and he was able to get the party united behind a platform that looks like it's radical enough to give slave power a thorough whacking once this is all over.

Red_Galiray said:
At almost the same time, an almost anonymous Republican vote, now with close to no Chesnut support at all, approved the Southern Territories Bill.
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"unanimous" maybe?"
Worffan101 said:
"The attempt on my life has left me shaken to my core...two Generals, heroes of our Cause and noble friends both, treacherously slain at my very feet...but I promise you, my resolve for the Cause of Liberty has NEVER BEEN STRONGER!
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I have mixed feelings about adapting The Senate's speech for protagonist's use, but I gotta say that was real badass.
 

New Potomac

Probably just as important as the more expansive language of this combined 13th-14th amendment is that it's the core of the Republicans reelection campaign.

That's going to create a massive electoral mandate for black equality that simply didn't exist in OTL.
 
Worffan101

Worffan101

Meshakhad said:
“General Sherman, execute Order 66.”

*dramatic scenes of slavers being gunned down by federal troops*
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Let's see if I can do this meme right.

The virgin Palpatine: Uses luck and carefully orchestrated situation to autocoup and declare himself Emperor of a fascist regime that barely lasts two decades before imploding.

the CHAD Lincoln: Uses luck and fortuitous situation to safeguard democracy and permanently abolish slavery for ten thousand years.
 

farmerted555

Worffan101 said:
"The attempt on my life has left me shaken to my core...two Generals, heroes of our Cause and noble friends both, treacherously slain at my very feet...but I promise you, my resolve for the Cause of Liberty has NEVER BEEN STRONGER!

"The remaining rebels will be hunted down and defeated. Any plantation barons will suffer the same fate. The cause of Secession and Slavery will be ripped out the roots, hunted down and annihilated by the brave patriots of our armies. In the name of Freedom we will emancipate every single slave, and make them equal citizens of our Republic! I believe, to my core, that Christ our Savior hates inequality, and despises the corruption of slavery, and I as a God-fearing man will do everything within my POWER to annihilate the Satanic corruption that the plantation-lords infested our America with!

"We stand at the threshold of a new beginning. In order to ensure the freedom and continuing equality of our great Nation, the United States shall be REORGANIZED into the FIRST! AMERICAN! FREE! REPUBLIC! To ensure a safe...and secure Continent!

"The Freedom of our Republic shall last ten thousand years. A Republic where every man and woman shall have an equal vote, regardless of race, color, creed, or descent, and a President and Senate held truly accountable to the workers and farmers that have built our America. A new Constitution, where our Equality is codified in the very foundation-stones of our Republic, rather than compromised away in three-fifths increments for the appeasement of the proud planters who rejected our great, free nation.

"We are building a nation for true Patriots of all colors and creeds. Every citizen of this great nation will be absolutely and completely equal before God and law! Say with me: Freedom! Equality! Democracy and Peace! Freedom! Equality! Democracy and Peace!"

I'm sorry, I'm just imagining Lincoln as an inverse, pro-democracy and benevolent Palpatine but using the attempt on his life to ram through his agenda the same way. IDK why I just found this amusing.
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"The war is over! President Lincoln promised us peace! We only want-"--The last words of John C. Breckenridge.
 

alternateeffect123

Damn, the sheer politicking behind the scenes must've made for a great movie or a tv show behind all the fire, shouts, and glory of the civil war.

Also makes me wonder how other countries from Europe would react to the social changes within America currently and later into the future.
 

Steelers94

Speaking of Sherman I wonder how he's taking the radicalization of the war. The man himself was the ultimate example of "I don't give a fuck about those damn n-words I'm just here to preserve the Union". I would love a perspective from what's left of that group of soldiers and how if any the war is changing their minds on their opinions towards blacks.
 

naraht

alternateeffect123 said:
Damn, the sheer politicking behind the scenes must've made for a great movie or a tv show behind all the fire, shouts, and glory of the civil war.

Also makes me wonder how other countries from Europe would react to the social changes within America currently and later into the future.
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The butterflies are still pretty small now. At most this changes which Civil War generals (particularly on the Confederate side) will be available for service in the Franco-Prussian War. I'm not sure that earlier women's suffrage (if it happens) makes much of a difference, the French for example didn't have full women's suffrage until after WWII (though without the war, it *probably* comes in 1942 or 1943, the Socialists in favor of it)

I don't remember anything iTTL likely to significantly affect Canadian confederation nor anything likely to save Maximillian. *Maybe* it leads to additional "Liberia"s but it depends on whether they are in Western Africa (which wasn't affected that much by the scramble for Africa) or farther east.
 
Arnold d.c

Arnold d.c

Great update! The new 13th Amendment's inclusion of the OTL 14th amendment not only ends slavery but adds the Citizenship and Equality Clauses for the nullification of Dred Scott and provision of equal rights under the law. I do wonder if the rest of the 14th Amendment will go through later on, maybe saved for the judgment of rebel officers?

What's on my mind is the Democratic Party Nomination. McClellan's done while Vallandigham, Pendleton, Horatio Seymour have fled to Europe. Maybe Daniel Voorhees, an anti-war Copperhead from Indiana, Franklin Pierce, Samuel J. Tilden or Francis P. Blair could be a candidate?
farmerted555 said:
"The war is over! President Lincoln promised us peace! We only want-"--The last words of John C. Breckenridge.
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"The telegraph was garbled. He promised you would be left in pieces."
 

DTF955Baseballfan

Great to see an update, it looks like Lincoln will win unless there is total disaster on all theaters of the war. While this will seem a bit radical to some, it is an amendment which can be used to sway immigrant voters. After all, the 14th is included in it and and you can easily argue that it does away with the right to post those signs saying "Irish need not apply." I'm sure with the political skill Lincoln has that he will use this to his advantage. There will be what one might call soft discrimination for a while, but no hardcore blatant refusal usual to help the immigrants.

This will also allow anti-lynching laws to not only be passed easier but possibly to be argued to be already codified in that amendment.

It might worry some that Holt was in the Buchanan administration but this nod to the Democrats will help even though hold has changed his stripes.

Lincoln only needs a majority in the electoral college, when I look at the electoral votes of OTL he clobbered mcclellan and I think there still could have been a Lincoln victory even without Atlanta being taken. But, it sure did make it easier.

I wonder who runs. Tilden is possible, he is older than I thought. He may have experience enough and I suspect that democrats will realize the danger to their voting base that this amendment brings and want a New Yorker to try to bring bring the Irish vote back to them. Their machine is pretty much broken otherwise there. Plus he is willing to see the war through to the end with unconditional victory.
 
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Workable Goblin

Workable Goblin

naraht said:
The butterflies are still pretty small now. At most this changes which Civil War generals (particularly on the Confederate side) will be available for service in the Franco-Prussian War. I'm not sure that earlier women's suffrage (if it happens) makes much of a difference, the French for example didn't have full women's suffrage until after WWII (though without the war, it *probably* comes in 1942 or 1943, the Socialists in favor of it)
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Earlier women's suffrage would affect Britain primarily, most likely, due to the cultural and linguistic ties between the United States and Britain and its colonies, and of course the fact that the British had an active and militant suffragist movement even prior to WWI that would certainly seize on the United States if it moved to pass an equivalent of the 19th Amendment earlier. But I'm somewhat doubtful of the possibility of that happening, and in any case it certainly hasn't happened yet.
 

naraht

Workable Goblin said:
Earlier women's suffrage would affect Britain primarily, most likely, due to the cultural and linguistic ties between the United States and Britain and its colonies, and of course the fact that the British had an active and militant suffragist movement even prior to WWI that would certainly seize on the United States if it moved to pass an equivalent of the 19th Amendment earlier. But I'm somewhat doubtful of the possibility of that happening, and in any case it certainly hasn't happened yet.
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Beyond, Britain, I would expect it to effect Australian and New Zealand which were among the "early adopters" iOTL.
 
Arnold d.c

Arnold d.c

naraht said:
At most this changes which Civil War generals (particularly on the Confederate side) will be available for service in the Franco-Prussian War.
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I am rather skeptical that Confederate generals would be welcomed into service by either army. Setting aside contempt for America's amateur armies (which had some degree of justification), neither France nor the German states lacked generals, which was a closed and purely professional corps. The only way we could see this happening would probably occur if there was a great loss of generals like at Sedan and Metz. The French Army of the Third Republic was more willing to overthrow the conventional structure and even issued a decree permitting foreigners to serve as generals (implying that they were prohibited in the first place). Giuseppe Garibaldi was probably the most famous foreigner willing to fight for France. That said, I'm not sure if any Union ex-general was eager to jump to serve France due to resentment from France's involvement in Mexico.

It should also be noted that the Third French Republic's generals weren't bad, showing much more energy than the lethargic generals of Napoleon III's army, but the quality of the Republic's army was rather poor. All the Republic had left were 7 regular line infantry regiments of the Empire, regular army reservists who were left behind at the depots and garde mobiles (second-line reservists). The gardes mobile was supposed to be the equivalent of the Landwehr, but they were woefully undertrained, with only 14 days of training per year (and not even consecutive days!). To be perfectly frank, the Gardes Mobile was frankly as bad if not outright inferior to the ACW Volunteers of 1861. At least, the latter had good morale to make up for their inexperience. For France to have any hope of achieving a draw or a win against the Prussians, they need a good chunk of the Regular Army to survive and to sack the surviving generals.

I think a bigger impact of deported Confederate generals would probably be in Mexico, where they can help Maximilian set up a proper army.
 
VaultJumper

VaultJumper

Arnold d.c said:
I am rather skeptical that Confederate generals would be welcomed into service by either army. Setting aside contempt for America's amateur armies (which had some degree of justification), neither France nor the German states lacked generals, which was a closed and purely professional corps. The only way we could see this happening would probably occur if there was a great loss of generals like at Sedan and Metz. The French Army of the Third Republic was more willing to overthrow the conventional structure and even issued a decree permitting foreigners to serve as generals (implying that they were prohibited in the first place). Giuseppe Garibaldi was probably the most famous foreigner willing to fight for France. That said, I'm not sure if any Union ex-general was eager to jump to serve France due to resentment from France's involvement in Mexico.

It should also be noted that the Third French Republic's generals weren't bad, showing much more energy than the lethargic generals of Napoleon III's army, but the quality of the Republic's army was rather poor. All the Republic had left were 7 regular line infantry regiments of the Empire, regular army reservists who were left behind at the depots and garde mobiles (second-line reservists). The gardes mobile was supposed to be the equivalent of the Landwehr, but they were woefully undertrained, with only 14 days of training per year (and not even consecutive days!). To be perfectly frank, the Gardes Mobile was frankly as bad if not outright inferior to the ACW Volunteers of 1861. At least, the latter had good morale to make up for their inexperience. For France to have any hope of achieving a draw or a win against the Prussians, they need a good chunk of the Regular Army to survive and to sack the surviving generals.

I think a bigger impact of deported Confederate generals would probably be in Mexico, where they can help Maximilian set up a proper army.
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I hope not unless you want America to come down for a rematch. Although that start the stage for better Mexican-American relationship if the Mexican Republicans and the Union work together to kick the Confederates and Monarchists,
 

Steelers94

VaultJumper said:
I hope not unless you want America to come down for a rematch. Although that start the stage for better Mexican-American relationship if the Mexican Republicans and the Union work together to kick the Confederates and Monarchists,
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Nah, you want better US-Mexican relations long term you want Maximilian to stay in charge.
 
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