True but if he does well and gets promoted he could take over after whoever ends up taking control during this invasion by Lee since none of the potential options bandied about so far seem like they'd persecute the war as needed.
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
I am very skeptical about this. Sheridan only became a corps commander and joined the Army of the Potomac because Halleck and Grant wanted him in charge of the Army of the Potomac's Cavalry Corps. Had Sheridan not caught Grant's eye, Sheridan would have remained a division commander fighting at the Western Theater. Moreover, a transfer from the Western Armies to the Eastern Army will definitely infuriate several officers (some of whom are probably close to the Lincoln administration). Sheridan is an outsider and there are many officers with the track record and seniority to prevent Sheridan from being transferred.
See normally I'd agree with the second one but its becoming like OTL where just about every potential candidate has had a shot and screwed up. Sure Burnside hasn't had a shot yet but given his OTL record he'd likely screw the pooch as well.
As for the former issue even if he's not commanding cavalry if he does well he'll get promoted still. So if would go with Sheridan doing well enough to get promoted, Lee's invasion ends and whoever's in charge fails to persecute the war as needed. Lincoln decides to replace them and given that pretty much everyone in the east has failed goes looking out west and ends up picking Sheridan.
Assuming I haven't missed reading his death another possible option could be Abner Doubleday.
Abner could put captured slave owners to work as POW labor to construct baseball parks for the new Negro League teams. So say we all!
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I've made a decision that both further my goals and diverges from OTL. Wait until the next update to see it.
I would like for Grant to come east eventually. I firmly consider him the best Union General, and a man who will play a part in Reconstruction be it as President or as General.
Aside from the already discussed facts regarding seniority and jealousy from other commanders, Sheridan is now serving under Thomas, having achieved distinction at Lexington.
Longstreet is the only Confederate for whom I feel any sympathy. Scalawags like him are necessary if Reconstruction is to succeed, for carpetbaggers are not numerous enough to provide the white basis Reconstruction states need in areas where Blacks are not a majority.
The Pennsylvania argument is something that somehow slipped my mind. Thank you for bringing that up. If Lee "makes Pennsylvania howl", then Reynolds may be more willing to engage in hard war. He apparently exiled some Marylanders OTL because he suspected them of being disloyal, so perhaps Reynolds could be pushed to radical measures if it's necessary to defend his home state and its people.
The Democratic split let them in shambles ITTL, but the National Union largely took over them. Since the Chesnuts are completely Copperhead here, once the war ends it's likely that the cities will be up for grabs, or remnants of the Democracy may still linger there. In any case, I guess pro-Labor Republicans could take over them since the Liberals were associated with aristocracy, even putting forward proposals for limiting suffrage.
Well, I guess everybody has flaws. When it comes to generalship it seems the consensus is that Meade and Reynolds are more or less equivalent, just that Meade would be more willing to play politics and Reynolds more aggressive. The image of the rebels being sent fleeing would be much more powerful if the Army of the Susquehanna actually pursues them.
This is critical, because ITTL Sheridan is with Thomas and likely to remain there. Thus, no Grant connection thus far.
Halleck was a victim of the military guillotine here. Lyon is now the General in-chief, and he's a stalwart Grant supporter, so it basically comes down to Grant's will.
No, please, point out any mistakes I might make! It's all to make the TL better. I just looked up John Pemberton and found that image. I saw that he was a Confederate general and did no question the fact that he was also, somehow, the inventor of Coca Cola, because I did not know there were two Pembertons. I'll correct it at once.
I haven't heard of him. What are his politics? And what was his rank OTL?
I would like for Grant to come east eventually. I firmly consider him the best Union General, and a man who will play a part in Reconstruction be it as President or as General.
Aside from the already discussed facts regarding seniority and jealousy from other commanders, Sheridan is now serving under Thomas, having achieved distinction at Lexington.
Longstreet is the only Confederate for whom I feel any sympathy. Scalawags like him are necessary if Reconstruction is to succeed, for carpetbaggers are not numerous enough to provide the white basis Reconstruction states need in areas where Blacks are not a majority.
The Pennsylvania argument is something that somehow slipped my mind. Thank you for bringing that up. If Lee "makes Pennsylvania howl", then Reynolds may be more willing to engage in hard war. He apparently exiled some Marylanders OTL because he suspected them of being disloyal, so perhaps Reynolds could be pushed to radical measures if it's necessary to defend his home state and its people.
The Democratic split let them in shambles ITTL, but the National Union largely took over them. Since the Chesnuts are completely Copperhead here, once the war ends it's likely that the cities will be up for grabs, or remnants of the Democracy may still linger there. In any case, I guess pro-Labor Republicans could take over them since the Liberals were associated with aristocracy, even putting forward proposals for limiting suffrage.
Well, I guess everybody has flaws. When it comes to generalship it seems the consensus is that Meade and Reynolds are more or less equivalent, just that Meade would be more willing to play politics and Reynolds more aggressive. The image of the rebels being sent fleeing would be much more powerful if the Army of the Susquehanna actually pursues them.
This is critical, because ITTL Sheridan is with Thomas and likely to remain there. Thus, no Grant connection thus far.
Halleck was a victim of the military guillotine here. Lyon is now the General in-chief, and he's a stalwart Grant supporter, so it basically comes down to Grant's will.
No, please, point out any mistakes I might make! It's all to make the TL better. I just looked up John Pemberton and found that image. I saw that he was a Confederate general and did no question the fact that he was also, somehow, the inventor of Coca Cola, because I did not know there were two Pembertons. I'll correct it at once.
I haven't heard of him. What are his politics? And what was his rank OTL?
@Red_Galiray here is his wikipedia article. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Doubleday
I was being slightly hyperbolic. But any Confederate who can find it within his heart to accept the new order and Black rights deserves at least some recognition, even if this does not mean complete redemption (case in point, Forrest).
I'm sorry, but the article is not very informative when it comes to his politics, focusing on his battles and his feud with Meade. I think the fact that he led an African-American infantry unit shows that he was at least somewhat progressive, but there are no detailed accounts of his thoughts and position. Thank you anyway.
As far as I know he didn't actually state his politics that much/never got the chance to. So if your looking for someone you could use as a potential "blank slate" so to speak he's your best bet.
Thank you for the suggestion. I might use him in the incoming campaign.
Abner Doubleday was one of the few Republican officers in the U.S. regular army and was pretty passionate about destroying slavery. At Gettysburg, he was the most senior division commander. He was reputed to act prudently in battle and I think his performance as the commander of I Corps at Gettysburg was as good as possible under his circumstances. That said, not a lot of his peers seemed to like him. His fellow officers found him to be stiff, pompous and quarrelsome. Doubleday was the first Union man to fire at Fort Sumter and he liked to cast himself as the “Hero of Fort Sumter”.
Moreover, Meade really hates him. Meade bore a grudge for Doubleday’s failure to support his breakthrough at Fredericksburg and thus (unfairly) relieved him of duty after Gettysburg when O.O. Howard reported that Doubleday’s I Corps was the first to break.
Thomas1195
Banned
Thing is, you cannot be the party of Andrew Carnegie and John Rockefeller and the party of the working class at the same time. Not to mention that the Liberal Republicans could have absorbed more of the people that would have become Progressive leaders IOTL (many of them started as political and civil service reformers) such as young Theodore Roosevelt, young Woodrow Wilson and so on especially if the David Davis/Nathaniel Banks/Benjamin Butler wing took over the party. The Liberals were also far less influenced by Know Nothing-ism, if not at all, which would help them a lot in cities.
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He seems like an excellent general, especially when it comes to politics. Thank you for sharing this information, I will put it to good use.
Yeah, that's why I said I guess. Much of the post-war political alignments depend on the issues of the war and Reconstruction, issues that haven't been settled yet. I would like to see the Republicans as the party of labor, African Americans and populism, and the Liberals as the party of industry, reform and aristocracy. I think they could form their own political machines in the cities instead of merely inheriting the old Democratic machines, especially because they are not as tainted by Know-Nothing-ism. But how the political division is going to happen and along which lines is not settled yet.
I have to wonder how Howard will do out of this new war. He seems to have been a mediocre general, at least in the Eastern Theater (his actions at Chancellorsville prior to Jackson's attack were just inexecusable, and his Gettysburg performance was questionable at best), but his politics would make him suited to prosecuting a hard Reconstruction. He certainly played a losing hand as hard as he could with the Freedmen's Bureau. Whether or not he'd be suited to waging the hard war that would allow a hard Reconstruction . . . in my opinion the odds are about fifty-fifty. On the one hand, his piety might keep him from issuing the sort of orders that a hard war would require. On the other hand, he was one of Sherman's wing commanders on the March to the Sea and in the Carolinas Campaign, so he was certainly capable of accepting orders to execute hard war policies.
Oliver O. Howard really was a mediocre commander all things considered. Looking away from his subpar performance at Chancellorsville and Pickett's Mill, Howard's performance was pretty average at best. The only reason he got command of the Army of the Tennessee was because Sherman favored West Point graduates (General John Logan would have been a better choice, but he was a political general (albeit a brilliant one)) and hated Joe Hooker. As for hard war, Howard followed Sherman's orders of foraging and destroying enemy infrastructure and factories but was deeply opposed to any looting committed by his troops.
The Confederate Army will probably have to resort to using loyalty brigades to keep their soldiers in line.
Any soldier caught deserting or expressing opinions detrimental to the southern cause will be punished severely