Unsafe Foundations. A British 1970s Timeline

JamesHunter

Not likely. That's the Marxists out of the way and easily disowned by labour where they'll do no harm, without them clearing out the entryists will now be far easier and the Tories lose a stick to beat them with. Also Scargill took money from the Russians and I don't doubt Labour will cheerfully dig that up if they can in order to destroy the TS.
 

sarahz

JamesHunter said:
Forewarned about the SDLP? That's useful, hopefully if the purge of the Marxist left can be moved up a decade it can either be avoided or they're the ones who bugger off and the Lib Lab pact can merge into a permanent centre left party.
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No l in that the sdlp was and is a northern Irish party
 

nezza

JamesHunter said:
Not likely. That's the Marxists out of the way and easily disowned by labour where they'll do no harm, without them clearing out the entryists will now be far easier and the Tories lose a stick to beat them with. Also Scargill took money from the Russians and I don't doubt Labour will cheerfully dig that up if they can in order to destroy the TS.
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Admitted its not likely. Benn fulminated about the "movement" and its supposed lurch to the centre and right. But its has cut the government majority to 2 plus it leaves Callaghan more susceptible to defeat,
 

nezza

"In early 1977 I became a special adviser to Keith Joseph the leader of the Conservative Party. He asked me to become secretary of...for the purposes of this programme we shall call the 'muck-up club'. Actually the real name was more robust than that. The club was a small group of Tory MP's under the control of Humphrey Atkins who was the chief whip at the time. Their role was to harry the government at every single turn, poking holes in arguments, using parliamentary proceedures to wear down the government and cause them to lose more votes.

(Michael Dobbs "The Night The Government Fell, BBC 2008)

NB this is real but this TL will follow a different path:
 

nezza

BBC Evening News 19th February 1977
"Good Evening. The Foreign Secretary Anthony Crosland has died in hospital six days after suffering a stroke"
 

Lindseyman

A by-election in Great Grimsby. I wonder if Labour will still pick Austin Mitchell? It was quite a local shock that they picked a Yorkie as their candidate, many predicted that he therefore had no chance despite being well known as a presenter of Calendar (Yorkshire Televisions Evening News Programme-it was still a bone of contention then that Yorkshire was the local ITV station. Although not as well known as the Yorkshire/Lancashire rivalry the Lincolnshire/Yorkshire rivalry (or more accurately the Grimsby/Hull rivalry) was every bit as intense). He did prove them somewhat wrong OTL.
EDIT:It is difficult to say which part of Humberside detested it most, the old East Riding or the old Lindsey. (Well the bits of them that were forced together.)
 
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nezza

Lindseyman said:
A by-election in Great Grimsby. I wonder if Labour will still pick Austin Mitchell? It was quite a local shock that they picked a Yorkie as their candidate, many predicted that he therefore had no chance despite being well known as a presenter of Calendar (Yorkshire Televisions Evening News Programme-it was still a bone of contention then that Yorkshire was the local ITV station. Although not as well known as the Yorkshire/Lancashire rivalry the Lincolnshire/Yorkshire rivalry (or more accurately the Grimsby/Hull rivalry) was every bit as intense). He did prove them somewhat wrong OTL.
EDIT:It is difficult to say which part of Humberside detested it most, the old East Riding or the old Lindsey. (Well the bits of them that were forced together.)
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Yes, they pick Austin. When I read Richard Whitley's autobiography "Himoff" I discovered that Austin was in fact a doctor of history and a former university tutor. I can imagine that the voters of Great Grimbsy might have thought at first that Labour was taking the piss As regards the ITV situation I do have a TL about alternative tv stations where Lincolnshire gets it own service.
 

Lindseyman

nezza said:
Yes, they pick Austin. When I read Richard Whitley's autobiography "Himoff" I discovered that Austin was in fact a doctor of history and a former university tutor. I can imagine that the voters of Great Grimbsy might have thought at first that Labour was taking the piss
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His winning the by-election was actually some feat (with a majority of 520) as the Conservative candidate Robert Blair was a well respected local man and Grimsby is, to say the least, quite insular and doesn't accept "foreigners" easily and in some ways he never was accepted despite trying to fight for the collapsing fishing industry (although I am a remainer I fully understand Grimsby's, and for that matter all the old fishing port's, contempt for the EU fishing policies).
nezza said:
As regards the ITV situation I do have a TL about alternative tv stations where Lincolnshire gets it own service.
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I've read it. My relations who still live in the area still hark back to the good old days when Anglia was the local ITV company.
 
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nezza

As in OTL David Owen becomes Foreign Secretary
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"Tony Crosland's death robbed the Labour Party not just of a superb politician but also of a cornerstone of thinking and analysis. His revisionist view of socialism may have caused ructions within some elements of the party but his social democratic view struck a chord with many moderates.

In a rare moment Jeremy Thorpe spoke not as European Affairs Secretary but as Liberal Leader at the despatch box during the tributes to Crosland where he was praised as someone who was capable of ignoring party divides and reaching out to form a broad consensus. Something which in Thorpe's opinion was much needed. Tony Benn as the de facto leader of the New Socialists watched from across the floor trying to conceal his anger over what he saw as Thorpe using the death of a friend to castigate Benn.

Crosland's death also brought into sharp focus the dangerous parliamentary situation. While the government's majority was kept at two thanks to Austin Mitchell's narrow win in Great Grimsby the truth was that many of Callaghan's backbenchers were old men who were fond of smoking and drinking. The late night votes which by 1977 were becoming a regular feature of parliamentary life were also taking their toll on the health of MP's

Jim knew that he needed a firmer foundation. But he also knew that to call an election in 1977 with the IMF crisis still fresh in the public's mind would have been electoral suicide"

(Cole 1995)
 

nezza

Roy Hattersley: "Jim had no real feel for constiutional matters. During the referendum he let Jeremy Thorpe deal with the European argument which i have to say he did with style. But by 1977 things were different. The perilous state of the government meant that quite frankly we were desperate for support and with the issue of Europe sorted for the time being Jeremy was beinginng to feel like a square peg in a round hole and there were rumblings among the Liberals that they were treated as being voting fodder so Jim and Jeremy started to talk about a new role"

("United Kingdom?" BBC 1999)
 

nezza

BBC Radio 4 News 1st March 1977 6PM
"Good Evening

"In a statement to the Commons this afternoon the Prime Minister has announced a new policy on enhancing the powers of the various nations of the United Kingdom. Speaking alongside Mr Jeremy Thorpe in his new role as Constitutional Affairs Secretary Mr Callaghan announced that the government will publish the 'Federation of The United Kingdom' Bill in a few months."
 

JamesHunter

nezza said:
BBC Radio 4 News 1st March 1977 6PM
"Good Evening

"In a statement to the Commons this afternoon the Prime Minister has announced a new policy on enhancing the powers of the various nations of the United Kingdom. Speaking alongside Mr Jeremy Thorpe in his new role as Constitutional Affairs Secretary Mr Callaghan announced that the government will publish the 'Federation of The United Kingdom' Bill in a few months."
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Devolution? Uh oh!
 

nezza

"The bill proposes the following
That Scotland and Wales be given their own parliaments with control over education, health and justice as well as a limited tax raising capability
The situation with Northern Ireland is different. The government proposes a programme of 'rolling devolution' where a decrease of violence will be matched with more powers being rolled out to the province. The Secretary of state for Northern Ireland will head a committee to ascertain whether the violence has decreased enough to allow more power to be devolved

Matters regarding Defence, foreign policy and infrastructure will remain at Westminster"

(Script for Donald MacCormick "Tonight" BBC 1st March 1977)
 

nezza

"I was not a fan of polticial initiatives in Northern Ireland. As far as I was concerend it was a case of justice for all with equality before the law and the administration of the province was a security matter. In discussions I had with Jim Callaghan, Jeremy Thopre and my counterparts John Morris (1) and Bruce Millan (2) before the announcement of the act that I would decide when and indeed if the devolved measures were introduced.

Thorpe asked me what the timeline was. I replied:

'Oh about three years after no deaths at all so as to decontaminate the province'

I wasn't joking"

(Roy Mason, "Paying The Price 1999)

(1. John Morris was Welsh Secretary. 2 Bruce Millan was Scottish Secretary)
 

nezza

"That period of the Callaghan government was very much carrot and stick. The federation act was designed to keep the SNP and Plaid Cymru onside. Jim simply couldn't rely on any members from Northern Ireland even Gerry Fitt who even though was very much a labour man was unhappy with Roy Mason's administration of his homeland.

The approach was also evident in industrial terms. Its worth pointing out at this juncture that the trade unions were fairly quiet during this time thanks in no small part to the legislation that had been put through the Commons by the surprisingly effective team of Michael Foot and Alan Beith. Yet the economy was still in a precarious situation. Inflation was about 10% at the time and the anger over the IMF saga was not fading fast enough.

It was in the midst of this that Denis Healey announced to the commons in May 1977 that the Government was to move a bill to legally restrict wage increases...

(Cole 1995)
 

nezza

"Jim wanted a 0% increase and then he said 'i agree they won't accept that so I'll try 3. I said 'look they're not going to settle for 3. Things have been going well recently so I suggest 5. That way we can keep inflation down and give the unions a feeling that they're being rewarded. I have to say that Jim looked very worried. He had been a close supporter of the unions as Chancellor and Home Secretary in the 1960s and was going against his principles

It was then that Alan Beith interjected and said 'Prime Minister, respectfully. Times have changed'"

(Healey 1989)
 

nezza

Bernard Donoghue "To bring in a statutory incomes policy went against Jim's nature. He was a trade unionist, he'd been a trade unionist and was instrumental in bringing down 'in place of strife' in the late 1960's. But as Prime Minister in 1977 with a highly precarious position he had to do something to keep the precious recovery intact. It was a case of 'damned if he did and damned if he didn't'"
 
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