Unorthodox Pre-modern Industrial Revolutions

Deleted member 97083

Some relatively common ideas on this board are early industrial revolutions occurring in the early Roman Empire, in the Song Dynasty before the Mongols, in Bengal in the 1700s, or in the Ptolemaic Kingdom/Hellenistic city-states.

Other than those pretty common scenarios, what are some unorthodox and uncommon places and times that could have led to an industrial revolution? You can add a few PODs before the actual industrial revolution, if needed, to set up the technological development.

This thread is mainly for ideas and speculative discussion, so exact plausibility is not required. Steampunk Aztec Empire? Why not? As long as you've got an explanation, go for it.
 
I always wondered about the possibility of a Persian or Morrocean following an industrial revolution model (rather than start it) under the right conditions in the XVIIIth. Not pulling a Meji, but really working something out their resources and plantation economy.

Similarily, I wonder how oil couldn't serve as primary fuel for an industrial revolution in the Arabo-Islamic world instead of coal (I don't know if it's possible, just wondering)
 

Deleted member 97083

Similarily, I wonder how oil couldn't serve as primary fuel for an industrial revolution in the Arabo-Islamic world instead of coal (I don't know if it's possible, just wondering)
I think it's because crude oil is a mixture of long chain and small chain hydrocarbons, which are only useful when used separately. So it has to be refined to make extracting it worthwhile. The technology for refining wasn't possible until the industrial revolution was already underway in the 19th century.
 
I think it's because crude oil is a mixture of long chain and small chain hydrocarbons, which are only useful when used separately. So it has to be refined to make extracting it worthwhile. The technology for refining wasn't possible until the industrial revolution was already underway in the 19th century.
Ah. Well, thanks for the info!
 
I think it was mentioned in the No Rome thread, but I've wondered about whether a more multipolar Mediterranean antiquity would see steadier rates of urbanization than OTL, rather than the precipitous drop seen in the 5th-6th centuries; you'd think this would facilitate the proliferation of literacy and the generation and dissemination of knowledge. The key scientific idea that makes the industrial revolution possible is air pressure; the steam engine does work when the steam in the piston is rapidly cooled, thus condensing and pulling the piston into the vacuum. I'd have to do more research into the history of science to figure out how to make that idea happen in another TL though.
 
I think it was mentioned in the No Rome thread, but I've wondered about whether a more multipolar Mediterranean antiquity would see steadier rates of urbanization than OTL, rather than the precipitous drop seen in the 5th-6th centuries; you'd think this would facilitate the proliferation of literacy and the generation and dissemination of knowledge. The key scientific idea that makes the industrial revolution possible is air pressure; the steam engine does work when the steam in the piston is rapidly cooled, thus condensing and pulling the piston into the vacuum. I'd have to do more research into the history of science to figure out how to make that idea happen in another TL though.

Well for any of the science to come to play, would be the burden of proof in regards to the question of urbanization in a no Roman Empire tl. You may be correct, however, I can see either argument and some topics and ideas; simply have no answer of their own.
 
Well for any of the science to come to play, would be the burden of proof in regards to the question of urbanization in a no Roman Empire tl. You may be correct, however, I can see either argument and some topics and ideas; simply have no answer of their own.
I think it's within the realm of plausibility at least; nothing is really certain one way or the other with such a remote PoD, so I doubt people would instantly close out of a TL that didn't feature a total state collapse in Western Europe from the 5th-6th centuries.
 
I've been thinking about an industrializing Mughal Empire. In effect, I suspect it would discover its coal deposits in Bengal some time in the early nineteenth century and use it for heating, but then trade with Europe would result in the spread of the Newcomen engine to drain water from mines. And from there, other uses of more sophisticated steam engines would result in industrialization.
 
Well for any of the science to come to play, would be the burden of proof in regards to the question of urbanization in a no Roman Empire tl. You may be correct, however, I can see either argument and some topics and ideas; simply have no answer of their own.
Urbanisation in western Romania is eventually less a question to demographical gathering, than to institutional and structural changes. Most of southern Gaul's cities were fairly small (2, 000 inhabitants in average), but were strongly connected to a larger structures as well than to themselves.

Not to say that, without Rome, you won't have an urbanisation but it would probably be under different lines : I often bring the exemple of the arverni oppidums of Corent, Gergovia and Gondole which hints at a relatively unified (if original) urbanism (and henceforth political power) on which were distinct but close urban centers form sort of "meta-capital" instead of a synoecism. Bibractos, Ensérune (Saiganthè?), Glanon, Entremont represent other types of alternative usrbanisation dependent on trade and proximity with mediterranean basin, with a more or less strong hellenistic influence (as well as etruscean).

I don't think it would be nearly as closely networked than it happened with Rome, at least in a first time, but could probably appear with its own thing with an hellenistic influence including up to institutions (as it happened with roman influence pre-conquest).
 
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