Unmigitgated Austrian Victory in the War of Spainsh Succession

In OTL a swift move by Queen Anne to expand the House of Lords by 12 peers. If the events that caused Britain to move towards the Treaty of Utrecht had not happened during the war. Let's say Joseph I doesn't die in 1711, but at a later date causing the whigs to be able to keep their support alive and have the Battle of Malplaquet not be such a Pyrric against the allies.

What happens with Joseph on the Throne of Spain, and the English only recieving the French gains from this war. (In the form of the Hudson Bay and Acadia, but not New Foundland, Minorica, or Gibralter?)
 

Thande

Donor
In OTL a swift move by Queen Anne to expand the House of Lords by 12 peers. If the events that caused Britain to move towards the Treaty of Utrecht had not happened during the war. Let's say Joseph I doesn't die in 1711, but at a later date causing the whigs to be able to keep their support alive and have the Battle of Malplaquet not be such a Pyrric against the allies.

What happens with Joseph on the Throne of Spain, and the English only recieving the French gains from this war. (In the form of the Hudson Bay and Acadia, but not New Foundland, Minorica, or Gibralter?)
Well, I don't think it has that much effect on any future American campaigns, but it does throw a sizeable spanner in the works of any British attempts to dominate - or even have any presence in - the Mediterranean. This proved vital in the OTL Napoleonic Wars and its absence is significant. Any *Napoleon...or dynamic Royalist French general given that the French Revolution is hardly a certainty with a POD this early...could probably bring Egypt into the French sphere of influence as Napoleon failed to in OTL due to the RN dominating the Mediterranean.
 
Well, I don't think it has that much effect on any future American campaigns, but it does throw a sizeable spanner in the works of any British attempts to dominate - or even have any presence in - the Mediterranean. This proved vital in the OTL Napoleonic Wars and its absence is significant. Any *Napoleon...or dynamic Royalist French general given that the French Revolution is hardly a certainty with a POD this early...could probably bring Egypt into the French sphere of influence as Napoleon failed to in OTL due to the RN dominating the Mediterranean.

Hmm, nice talk about Napoleon, but for... syphillis

There is going to be Spanish-Austrian empire...
 
Well, it depends... I mean, if the Hapsburgs basically just keep running it like the Spanish Hapsburgs did, Spain continues on a decline, but the nobles don't care much... Maybe they could press a few reforms in.

But if they try to say, unite Austria and Spain into one Empire, then there could be problems...
 
One must remeber the Austrian line too could end soon. For one if Joseph the first has kids we are no longer dealing with Charles III and Maria Therasa though I'm sure if the Josphian line ran out that would be the first line to inhiert, if they preclude that a woman couldn't inhiert then they'd go to the next line. The marriages, and inhiertances are very trackable. Once Joseph dies we have an entirely new war of Austrian and Spainsh Sucession to deal with.. what do you think happens in this scenario?

Gladi, Steve, through out history there have been many Empires, but they ended up ruling these parts of their Empires as sperate kingdoms rather than as a unified goverment. Plus we are working with Joseph I here, not Charles III whom we know would have attempted unfication. But lets Assume Joseph runs a Spainsh Empire, and an Austrian Empire sperately.
 
The Castilian and Aragonese crowns (there was no united Spanish crown at this time, only the title "King of Spain") allowed for females to inherit the throne, so Maria Theresa's inheritance wouldn't be that much of a problem assuming the line progresses as OTL.

If Charles III/VI takes the throne, I could see him making his center of attention Madrid, rather than Vienna. He seemed to prefer the Spanish court system, and introduced many elements of it into the Austrian court.
 
If Charles III/VI takes the throne, I could see him making his center of attention Madrid, rather than Vienna. He seemed to prefer the Spanish court system, and introduced many elements of it into the Austrian court.
But we are speculating Joseph rather than his younger brother Charles.:D
 
But we are speculating Joseph rather than his younger brother Charles.:D
Hm, well, Joseph had no sons OTL. Though, he died of smallpox in Vienna OTL... and by the time he died, he had had no children for nearly ten years, so it's unlikely he'll have a son as well.

Though, he very well might not be in Vienna at the time to catch smallpox, and could live a few more years... hm, say Charles dies before his brother, and the throne passes to Joseph's first daughter Maria Josepha (could we assume a Pragmatic Sanction?), who was marries to Augustus II of Saxony/III of Poland. Depending on when this occurs, we have a House of Hapsburg-Wettin, Saxony is added to the Hapsburg domains, and maybe Poland too (though the War of Polish Succession could go differently)...
 
Part of the scenario assumes that he either lives through small pox or doesn't catch it at all. If he can't go though his daughter he may try through a cousin, or one of his sister's male kids. (Mary Anne of Austria (Daughter of Leopold) was married to the King John V of Portugal which is the closest legitmate line I can find if he has issue with a woman inhierting his realms...)

Though he did attempt pragmatic sucess this could be an intresting line if he backs down. Oh the delcious irony that the Habsburg's inhiertance's would pass to a Portuguese Prince....and I believe that the Polish Crown wasn't hieritary but noblely elected.
 
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One must remeber the Austrian line too could end soon. For one if Joseph the first has kids we are no longer dealing with Charles III and Maria Therasa though I'm sure if the Josphian line ran out that would be the first line to inhiert, if they preclude that a woman couldn't inhiert then they'd go to the next line. The marriages, and inhiertances are very trackable. Once Joseph dies we have an entirely new war of Austrian and Spainsh Sucession to deal with.. what do you think happens in this scenario?

Gladi, Steve, through out history there have been many Empires, but they ended up ruling these parts of their Empires as sperate kingdoms rather than as a unified goverment. Plus we are working with Joseph I here, not Charles III whom we know would have attempted unfication. But lets Assume Joseph runs a Spainsh Empire, and an Austrian Empire sperately.

Well I heard he had syphilis... Though how much truth it holds I am not completely sure.
 
Couldn't we just POD that he doesn't catch syphilis?
Doesn't mean he'll have a viable heir though, his father had thirteen children, including five sons, but only two sons lived to adulthood... (both became Emperor too)... though I suppose it depends on the direction you want the TL to go in.
 
Of course :). Butterfly of that would be his longer survival ;).
Which was included in the first post.;)

Imajin, it doesn't mean he won't either. After all this is fiction, and while I'll admit that having Portugal as the lead crown or being heavily related to the lead crown (same with Poland if done through pragmatic) is going to lead to a problem we are going to have to assume something happens withhis sucession as well as actions taken during his reign and any butterflies those could possibly make... if we want this discussion to progress forward.:)
 
Well, the problem with a fictional character is that it's hard to tell what they'll do.
Look at those around him and in simular situations, look at those of simular dispotions and what they'd do in those circumstances after all nothing is new under the sun.
 
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